obsolescence; was Re: Re: church key 'beer-can opener' is obsolete

[Barbara Need]

>In a message dated 2/25/05 12:31:43 PM, nee1 at MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU writes:
>
>
>>
>>  Except that the item still exists. I just asked two graduate students
>>  (and another, I think he was an undergrad), if they knew what a
>>  church key was. The two graduate students didn't know what the term
>>  referred to, the other said it was a "very simple key" that opens
>>  anything, "like a skeleton key". However, when I drew a very crude
>>  picture of one (with both ends), both of the graduate students
>>  recognized the item--like Larry's son, they know the denotatum, even
>>  if they don't know the word (the undergrad had left before I was done
>>  with my artistic efforts).
>>
>
>Well, yeah, the punch-style can opener still exists (thought I doubt that
>Paul Newman still wears one on a chain around his neck, as his wife
>once reported that he did). It is just no longer very frequently
>referred to as a CHURCH KEY, for the sociolinguistic reasons I
>outlined in my previous e-mail. The slang term is obsolete. There
>must be other slang terms that are technologically obsolete as
>well--maybe PLATTERS 'phonograph records'? ICE BOX 'refrigerator'?

When does a word (phrase, term, what-have-you) become obsolete? I
mean, what makes it obsolete instead of rare or dialectal? I would
have thought it was when that item is not part of the vocabulary of
any speaker of a language (dialect, etc.). Since we have clear
evidence it is part of the vocabulary of a number of speakers on this
list, I would not call the term church key obsolete. Obsolescent,
maybe (unless we can revive its usage).

Barbara