gunsel

[Wilson Gray]

WRT "punk," far as long as I can remember - from the early '40's -
"punk" has always been the Black-English equivalent of "fag" in the
sense of "most insulting term applicable to homosexuals." Its use in
the movies with only the meaning of "callow youth" was simply not
understood and always brought forth peals of inappropriate laughter
from the audiences in the segregated movie houses of my youth. E.g.,
remember the scene in Red River in which John Wayne says to Montgomery
Clift, "You young punk"? It had the audience of the Dugout (actually,
the Douglas) rolling in the aisles.

-Wilson  Gray

On Jan 10, 2005, at 8:35 PM, paulzjoh wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       paulzjoh <paulzjoh at MTNHOME.COM>
> Subject:      Re: gunsel
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
>
> I remember the phrase "punked out" as prison slang for forcing someone
> to take the subservient role in a homosexual relationship.
>
> Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>
>> Seems to me that "gunsel" was already in Hammett's 1929 novel, and
>> that the emergent sense of "gunman" owes a lot to the 1941 film. A
>> "gunsel" was, essentially, a "raw youth" and did not always imply
>> homosexuality.
>>
>> Cf. the precisely similar range of meanings attached to "punk." The
>> latter is almost unquestionably from the 16th-century term for a
>> prostitute or kept mistress - eventually extended in prison and
>> similar situations to young men.
>>
>> JL
>>
>> "Arnold M. Zwicky" <zwicky at CSLI.STANFORD.EDU> wrote:
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>> -----------------------
>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>> Poster: "Arnold M. Zwicky"
>> Subject: Re: gunsel
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ---------
>>
>> On Jan 10, 2005, at 10:45 AM, Bill Mullins wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> As far as "The Maltese Falcon" goes, I believe you are right. But
>>> Cook
>>> seems to be the stereotype of the second OED defintion, as well -- a
>>> cheap hood whose job it is to shoot, or get shot. Check out his
>>> listings in the IMDB.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>> Poster: paulzjoh
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>> Subject: Re: gunsel
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> I thought that Bogart was calling Cook a faggot when he said gunsel.
>>>> When I first saw the movie I was too young to know about
>>>> homosexuality, little else sex, but rewatching the movie on
>>>> TV, it seems that there is a Hollywood euphuism at work there.
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>> as i understand the situation, the writers wanted to get the
>> 'catamite'
>> attribution across, but were having trouble finding an expression they
>> could get past the studio. then the yiddishly knowledgable among them
>> realized that "gunsel" might work, because most viewers would connect
>> it to "gun", the character Wilmer being a gun-toting hoodlum. this
>> seems to have succeeded, and produced a 'gunslinger' reading for
>> "gunsel".
>>
>> so, not euphemism (or euphuism, for that matter), but a kind of
>> deliberate invitation to misunderstanding, conveying one apparent
>> meaning to most people while getting another meaning across to the
>> insiders.
>>
>> arnold
>>
>>
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