copacetic?

[Jonathan Lighter]

My friend is now a high-school English teacher and she's always said "much."  It may be that "Armuchee" (near Rome, Ga.) originally had a vowel like that in "book" and "look"; maybe that was somehow conducive to an intrusive "r."

Dunno, as usual.

JL

Wilson Gray <wilson.gray at RCN.COM> wrote:
---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
Sender: American Dialect Society
Poster: Wilson Gray
Subject: Re: copacetic?
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On Jan 20, 2005, at 4:47 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
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> Sender: American Dialect Society
> Poster: Jonathan Lighter
> Subject: Re: copacetic?
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
>
> I have friend from Armuchee, Ga., who observes that it is univerally
> pronounced "ArMURchee" by the locals.
>
> JL

Damn! I have a phonological analysis of this phenomenon that fails,
unless the locals also replace spelled -rC with pronounced -IC in at
least some cases. My mother never says "murch." Rather, she says
[m^IC]. Well, even if my analysis fails, it's never gotten beyond the
thought-experiment stage, in any case. I haven't written a single word.

-Wilson

>
> Wilson Gray wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
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> Sender: American Dialect Society
> Poster: Wilson Gray
> Subject: Re: copacetic?
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
>
> FWIW - not much, admittedly, since there's no documentation - I've
> always had the feeling that "bullco(r)n" is a kind of euphemism for,
> or, perhaps, merely a mishearing of, "bullcome," This latter sounds
> like "bullkahm," just as "come," used in both its standard and its
> obscene meanings, sounds like "kahm" to the untutored Northern ear.
>
> Since both "bullshit" and the use of "con" as a verb are known to
> everyday people, such a person, hearing fresh-off-the-bus Cudn Willih
> say "Bullkahm!" in precisely those places in which "Bullshit!" would be
> used, overcorrects it to "bullcon," which makes more sense than
> "bullcalm" does. And r-insertion is nih 'bout as common as r-deletion.
> My mother pronounces "George" as "Jawidge," just as ol' George Foreman
> himself, likewise a native of Marshall, Texas, does. But she pronounces
> "judge" as "jurge." I've even heard "much" pronounced as "murch" by
> Marshallites: Do you know what Besame Mucho (title of a Top-40 song of
> the '40's) mean? It mean "kiss me murch."
>
> -Wilson Gray
>
> On Jan 20, 2005, at 9:51 AM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>> Poster: Jonathan Lighter
>> Subject: Re: copacetic?
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -
>> --------
>>
>> "Bullco(r)n" dates from 1890s in print. See HDAS. Ho hum. (But it's
>> good to get these later
>> examples: "bullcome" is a new one.)
>>
>> Is anybody familiar with "bullfuck," meaning gravy? It's attested in
>> The American Thesaurus of Slang in 1942 (amazingly!).
>>
>> JL
>>
>> Wilson Gray wrote:
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>> Poster: Wilson Gray
>> Subject: Re: copacetic?
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -
>> --------
>>
>> On Jan 19, 2005, at 10:30 PM, Douglas G. Wilson wrote:
>>
>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>> -----------------------
>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>> Poster: "Douglas G. Wilson"
>>> Subject: Re: copacetic?
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -
>>> -
>>> --------
>>>
>>> I don't believe the origin of "copasetic" is established, but IMHO it
>>> is
>>> possible that the original form was "copathetic". This is still is of
>>> unknown origin but it has a less opaque form ... one could imagine a
>>> fanciful coinage based on "congenial" (or even "cozy") +
>>> "sympathetic"
>>> perhaps ("a real copathetic place"), for example.
>>>
>>> "Copathetic" can be found just about as early as any spelling of
>>> "copasetic" AFAIK. Phonetically /T/ > /s/ is more likely than /s/ >
>>> /T/, I
>>> think.
>>
>> But is this a sound change that one could reasonably expect to occur
>> or
>> to have occurred in English, even if, e.g. Robert Johnson's "Stones In
>> My Passway" is accepted as derived from "... Pathway"? What are some
>> other examples of this change? And it's not unknown for slang terms to
>> have local variants. In East Texas, we said "bullcome." I've heard
>> "bullcorn" in L.A., though this form is low-rated as being "country
>> talk." I first heard a usage close to the "standard" one in St. Louis.
>> It was in the punch line of the first shaggy-dog story that I ever
>> heard.
>>
>> A. And you know what was in it?
>> B. Naw. What was in it?
>> A. All this bull I'm shittin' you! Har! Har! Har!
>>
>> -Wilson Gray
>>
>>
>>>
>>> From N'archive:
>>>
>>> ----------
>>>
>>> _Evening State Journal_ (Lincoln NE), 3 Dec. 1919: p. 6, col. 3:
>>>
>>> <> becomingness of rubber-tired spectacles, "Yas'm," said Mandy, "I
>>> think
>>> they's becoming 'cep I does think they makes a pusson's face look
>>> crowded.">>
>>>
>>> ----------
>>>
>>> IMHO this "copathetic" is likely to be the same word as "copasetic".
>>> IMHO
>>> the context suggests that "copathetic" may have been considered some
>>> sort
>>> of a shibboleth.
>>>
>>> -- Doug Wilson
>>>
>>
>>
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