ADS-L Digest - 24 Jul 2005 to 25 Jul 2005 (#2005-207) WARNING: WAY OFF-TOPIC

Thu Jul 28 23:17:49 UTC 2005

Reminds me of the famous Bill Mauldin cartoon with the two army officers standing on a crag gazing at the sun setting behind the Alps.  One says, "Lovely view. Is there one for the enlisted men ? "

In _Catch-22_, Col. Cathcart asks the Chaplain in astonishment, "You mean the enlisted men pray to the same God we do ?...And he listens ? ? ? ?"

As for recent recruiting slogans, take "The Marines Are Looking for a Few Good Men" and "The Few. The Proud. The Marines," and cf. with the Army's "Be All You Can Be" and "An Army of One," undoubtedly the dumbest yet.

Will look up the Duncan feature.  His "police action" photos from 1950 - 51 set a new standard for combat photography, though Rosenthal's Iwo Jima flag-raising picture may be said to have ushered in the new age.  (A somewhat comparable photo, which manages to suggest the unpicturesque grubbiness of the whole enterprise in a way that Rosenthal's doesn't, is the Russian picture of their flag going up over the Reichstag.)

It became fashionable even before Vietnam to claim that Rosenthal's photo was some kind of fake but no, it was just a lucky shot.

When it was first printed in _Life_ magazine, a Marine general remarked, "This means there'll be a Marine Corps for the next thousand years."

JL

Wilson Gray <wilson.gray at RCN.COM> wrote:
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Sender: American Dialect Society
Poster: Wilson Gray
Subject: Re: ADS-L Digest - 24 Jul 2005 to 25 Jul 2005 (#2005-207)
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Speaking of marine memoirists, did you see the op-ed article in the NYT
by famed former-marine combat photographer, David Douglas Duncan? It
features a portion of his famous photograph of the marine with the
thousand-yard stare. I first came across this phrase in some
space-combat science-fiction story of the '50's. It had been slightly
modified to read "thousand-parsec stare."

The article also recounts the story that this marine, when asked what
he wanted for Christmas, replied, "Just give me tomorrow."

And, speaking of slogans, there's really no comparison between their
"Semper Fidelis" and the Army's bland and nearly devoid of meaning
"This we will defend!" Even we GI's mocked this as "This We'll
Defend?", a phrase most often found as a graffito over the hole of a
field outhouse for enlisted men. (The bodily wastes of enlisted men are
not permitted to fraternize with the bodily wastes of commissioned
officers, nor may enlisted ass besmirch a toilet seat set aside for of
commissioned ass.)

-Wilson

On Jul 28, 2005, at 7:37 AM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
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> Sender: American Dialect Society
> Poster: Jonathan Lighter
> Subject: Re: ADS-L Digest - 24 Jul 2005 to 25 Jul 2005 (#2005-207)
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>
> Ever notice how coverage of the Iraq War emphasizes Marine activities
> ? At the time they were talking of eliminating the Corps, President
> Truman observed "The Marines have a propaganda machine bigger than
> Stalin's."
>
> That, cool recruiting slogans, and those nifty dress blues. Seriously
> though, over the last sixty years the Marines may have produced more
> novelists and memoirists, in proportion to their numbers, than any of
> the other services.
>
> JL
>
> Wilson Gray wrote:
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> Sender: American Dialect Society
> Poster: Wilson Gray
> Subject: Re: ADS-L Digest - 24 Jul 2005 to 25 Jul 2005 (#2005-207)
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
>
> Right as rain, as usual, Jon. "Drill sergeant," never "DS," it is. In
> my day, drill sergeants were addressed simply as "sergeant." And, of
> course, "basic training" is still called "basic."
>
> I remember the plan to fold the Marine Corps into the Army. At the
> time, it was said that it wasn't bad enough that the Navy had to have
> its own air force, but it also even had to have its own army, the
> marines!
>
> Since those days, the influence of the Marine Corps has only grown. The
> designations of some Army enlisted grades have been changed to match
> the terms used by the Marines, e.g, the "private first class" of my day
> is the Marine Corps-like "lance corporal" of today, with an insigne
> based on that of the Marine Corps.
>
> FWIW, The Red Army called its marines by a name that translates as
> "maritime infantry." In Soviet days, there was only the Red Army, to
> which the Military Air Forces and the Military Maritime Fleet were
> subordinate.
>
> -Wilson
>
> On Jul 27, 2005, at 10:56 AM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
>
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>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>> Poster: Jonathan Lighter
>> Subject: Re: ADS-L Digest - 24 Jul 2005 to 25 Jul 2005 (#2005-207)
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>> -
>> --------
>>
>> Just for the record, my perception of the distribution of "drill
>> instructor" / "DI" matches Wilson's. It was a Marine Corps expression
>> long before it became popular in reference to the army. However, I
>> don't believe it antedates World War II. Even during Vietnam, I
>> believe that the Army term was "drill sergeant" (not abbreviated to "
>> *DS" , by the way) - which the USMC had once used routinely as well.
>>
>> During World War I, the Marines used a combination of naval and
>> military terminology, often referring to themselves as "soldiers" (as
>> in the cliche', "soldiers of the sea"). But during World War II
>> especially, a movement got underway to emphasize the unique (as well
>> as the naval) characteristics of the Marines.
>>
>> After WWII this tendency was accelerated, especially after a
>> short-lived post-war political movement to dismantle the Marine Corps
>> and place it under Army command.
>>
>> Like "drill instructor," "boot camp" was generally restricted to the
>> Naval services until long after WWII. I think the Army itself still
>> frowns on its use..
>>
>> JL
>> Wilson Gray wrote:
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>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>> Poster: Wilson Gray
>> Subject: Re: ADS-L Digest - 24 Jul 2005 to 25 Jul 2005 (#2005-207)
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>> -
>> --------
>>
>> On Jul 26, 2005, at 2:46 PM, James A. Landau wrote:
>>
>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
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>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>> Poster: "James A. Landau"
>>> Subject: Re: ADS-L Digest - 24 Jul 2005 to 25 Jul 2005 (#2005-207)
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>>> -
>>> -
>>> --------
>>>
>>> of no particular importance, but they strike my curiosity
>>>
>>> In a message dated Mon, 25 Jul 2005 18:16:16 -0500, "Mullins, Bill"
>>> _Bill.Mullins at US.ARMY.MIL_ (mailto:Bill.Mullins at US.ARMY.MIL) cites:
>>>
>>>> THE ARGOT OF THE STUDIO WORKERS By GLENDON ALLVINE.
>>>> New York Times; Feb 3, 1935; pg. X4 col 4.
>>>>
>>>> OFF TO BUFFALO -- Hurry up, or exit with all possible speed."
>>>
>>> is this perhaps related to the expression "shuffle off to Buffalo"?
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "PIG -- Current transformer."
>>>
>>>
>>> "pig" for "transformer" is electrical power jargon since at least the
>>> mid-60's, when I heard it from an electrical engineer roommate in
>>> college. Most
>>> commonly found as "pole pig", a transformer up on a telephone pole.
>>>
>>> A wild guess at the etymology is that a transformer resembles an
>>> ingot
>>> of
>>> iron in shape and perhaps in size, and cast iron ingots have been
>>> referred to as
>>> "pig iron" since, according to one account, Catalan ironworkers
>>> invented
>>> cast iron back in the Middle Ages. The reason for the term "pig
>>> iron" is that
>>> the ingots in their molds reminded the ironworkers of a mother pig
>>> feeding her
>>> piglets.
>>>
>>> Wilson Gray writes :"Remember when "uptight" was "up
>>> tight" and also had a positive meaning that was once more widespread
>>> than the negative one?"
>>>
>>> This may not be very relevant, but when I was in Basic Training in
>>> 1969 a
>>> sergeant when he wanted to compliment you said "your shit is up
>>> tight".
>>
>> You got an actual compliment from a cadre member while still in Basic?
>> That *is* up tight, not to mention outta sight! You must have been
>> some
>> "sharp soldier," if that phrase was still used in your day,
>>
>>> I've
>>> never been able to hear the term "uptight" since without thinking of
>>> a
>>> DI.
>>
>> In my day - late '50's - "D[ril]I[instructor]" was only a marine
>> expression disdained by the War (black GI slang term for the Army).
>> Unfortunately, I'm having a senior moment and I can't recall what the
>> term in use was in those days. I "have an inkling in the back of my
>> thinking-cap" that "instructor" was also part of the Army term, but
>> that's all I can come up with.
>>
>>>
>>> Wilson Gray writes "FWIW, The Movie Channel once showed brief
>>> infomercials
>>> between movies.
>>> The one that featured gaffer's tape showed it looking a lot more like
>>> what I know as "electrician's tape" - smooth, black, stretchy plastic
>>> -
>>> and not at all like duck/duct tape - textured, silvery, non-stretchy
>>> cloth"
>>>
>>> A problem here is that, back in the 1950's when my father was
>>> teaching
>>> me
>>> carpentry and wiring, there was no such thing as
>>
>>> "electrician's tape".
>>
>> To paraphrase a line from an old movie, "Among yidn, a goy is no yid,
>> But, among goyim, a goy can be a yid." That is, though electricians
>> may
>> know that there's no such thing as "electrician's tape,"
>> non-electricians "know" that there is. It's like civilians not knowing
>> the difference between "As you were!" and "Carry on!"
>>
>> -Wilson Gray
>>
>>> Instead
>>> an electrician had to use two different pieces of tape to seal a join
>>> in an
>>> electrical wire. First he used a rough-surfaced non-stretchy black
>>> tape
>>> which may have been cloth---certainly it did not feel like plastic.
>>> This layer
>>> provided the elecrical insulation but had poor adhesive
>>> qualities---it stuck
>>> just enough to stay in place while waiting for the second layer..
>>> Then over
>>> the first layer he used a tape that was either rubber or plastic (I
>>> don't
>>> remember which) and may have been stretchy.. This tape provided good
>>> adhesion and
>>> kept the inner layer in place, as well as providing a protective
>>> covering
>>> over the inner layer.. One of these two tapes (I don't remember
>>> which) was
>>> called "friction tape".
>>>
>>> - James A. Landau
>>>
>>
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