"guy" used by teens?

[Patti J. Kurtz]

stalker at MSU.EDU wrote:

>
>        This is an interesting sociolinguistic question.  “Teens” probably
>didn’t exist in the 1800s, at least in the sense that we conceive of them,
>especially in the middling to lower classes.  They were young adults,
>members of the workforce, or soon to be.  Between 15 and 17, they generally
>went to work, with adults, as apprentices.   They lived in an adult world as
>adults.
>
Quite right, of course, which makes writing about them from our vantage
point doubly difficult.

> I would guess that teen language reflected their adult social
>context.  In literature, the most likely place their language would be
>reported, slang, or informal whichever you choose, was rarely represented,
>as far as I know.  One of the few that I know is Austen’s “Northanger
>Abbey,” in which the main female character is a teen, but not overtly
>presented as that category.
>
And Little Women, though memory fails me as to how old the girls are in
that book.  But yes, a great point;  young adult literature as we define
it, didn't really exist until the very late 19th and early 20th
century.  Which limits the resources a writer like me has for uncovering
teen language from that time period.

All of which makes writing young adult historical fiction a massive
undertaking.  But thanks for the insight, Jim!

Patti!

> Part of the interest for this novel is that it
>is about a teen and her perceptions (and the unfortunate effect of novels on
>those perceptions).  The only slang that I remember is a hot dude from
>Oxford, with a chaise. Emma gets more play time in current movies, but she
>is not, I think, equivalent to our modern teens.
>        Nonetheless, I went looking in Farmer and Henley to see what they had to
>tell us.  I was surprised to find an 1837 citation in which a female is
>referred to as a “guy.”  (HDAS, of course, has the citation as well.)  I
>thought the female reference was much later, like more in our time, you see
>what I’m sayin’.  In querying my classes, over several years,  they
>(male and female) are willing to accept mixed gender groups and all female
>groups being referred to as “guys,” by either male or female speakers.
>But guy in the singular is never applicable to a female.
>
>
>Jim Stalker
>
>
>
>
>Patti J. Kurtz writes:
>
>
>
>>I know that "guy" (fellow) goes back to the mid 1800's.  My question
>>is-- would it have been used by teenagers in that time period to refer
>>to others of their own age group, as in 'he saw her standing between two
>>guys."  Or is the use of this by teens a more recent phenomenon?
>>
>>Anyone have thoughts on that?
>>
>>Thanks!
>>--
>>
>>Dr. Patti J. Kurtz
>>
>>Assistant Professor, English
>>
>>Director of the Writing Center
>>
>>Minot State University
>>
>>Minot, ND 58707
>>
>>
>>
>>Foster: What about our evidence? They've got to take notice of that.
>>
>>
>>
>>Straker: Evidence. What's it going to look like when Henderson claims
>>that we manufactured it, just to get a space clearance program?
>>
>>
>>
>>Foster: But we are RIGHT!
>>
>>
>>
>>Straker: Sometimes, Colonel, that's not quite enough.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>James C. Stalker
>Department of English
>Michigan State University
>
>

--

Freeman - And what drives you on, fighting the monster?



Straker - I don't know, something inside me I guess.



Freeman - It's called dedication.



Straker - Pig-headedness would be nearer.