strong like ball

[Jonathan Lighter]

"Guts, but no bowels" may appear problematic in the light of later usage, but I'm dubious about figuration here since "bowels" were traditionally associated with compassion while literal "guts" were mere bodily organs. "Fret one's guts," if figurative, is only barely so.  Worry often causes stomach-aches.

JL

James C Stalker <stalker at MSU.EDU> wrote:
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Sender: American Dialect Society
Poster: James C Stalker
Subject: Re: strong like ball
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Just because I have my Farmer and Henley at hand, would you consder the
following to be figurative/metaphorical?

To fret one's guts:...to worry
To have plenty of guts, but no bowels: To be unfeeling, hard, merciless.

Farmer and Henley: "gut"

Jim Stalker

Jonathan Lighter writes:

> And anyone who can supply 19th C. exx. of "guts" in a figurative sense should please do so.
> In the days before search engines and databases, I couldn't find much.
>
> JL
>
> "Baker, John" wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender: American Dialect Society
> Poster: "Baker, John"
> Subject: Re: strong like ball
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Yes, "guts" used to be considered coarse. Here's an illustrative quotation from Richard Grant White, A Desultory Denunciation of English Dictionaries, in The Galaxy (1869), via Cornell University Making of America:
>
> <>
>
> Here's an 11/22/1928 use of "intestinal fortitude" from the online Harvard Crimson (Merriam-Webster has c. 1937), which also illustrates the point:
>
> <>
>
>
> John Baker
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU]On Behalf
> Of Gordon, Matthew J.
> Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 7:38 PM
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> Subject: strong like ball
>
>
> I heard a new-to-me phrase on the radio: "testicular fortitude" which I took to be a form of "intestinal fortitude" gone south. The context was a local sports program discussing a particular coach. As expected, Google show 11k hits for it (cf. 63k for "intestinal fortitude").
>
> While I'm at it, I'd always thought of "intestinal fortitude" as a humorously formal alternative to "guts." Does the evidence suggest it arose as a deliberately funny coinage? I see OED has a 1945 citation from Edgar Bergen/Charlie McCarthy.
>
> Also, was "guts" seen as vulgar or coarse at some time? Today it seems mostly just informal.
>
> -Matt Gordon
>
>
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James C. Stalker
Department of English
Michigan State University

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