St. Louis

Fri Dec 1 15:49:05 UTC 2006

Just heard two black women on Judge Greg's show, one from Hartford and
the other from Saint Louis, both using the pronunciation, "Saint
Lewis." Maybe it's a black thang. But, to tell it like it T-I-'tis,
when I was a kid, I heard older black people use "Saint Louie" and
even "Sant [saent] Louie." I considered these to be joking or slang
pronunciations, at the time, since my contemporaries and teachers used
"Saint Lewis."

-Wilson

On 12/1/06, Wilson Gray <hwgray at gmail.com> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: St. Louis
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Time changes things, I guess. I haven't actually lived in Saint Louis
> since 1962 and I've  visited there only once since then. That was in
> '03 and it was heartbreaking. I took my wife to see the old family
> manse on Page Boulevard. It was still standing, empty, on a block so
> uninhabited that no vandal had broken out as much as a single wiindow.
> In fact, there was only one wndow broken on a block in which only two
> houses were inhabited.
>
> IAC, back in my day, if a person of high-school age was asked where he
> went to school and he answered, "Saint Louie," it was immediately
> understood that he went to Saint Louis University High School.
> [Little-known fact: Toussaint Charbonneau, son of Sacagawea and
> pictured as a child on that dollar coin, graduated from Saint Louie
> when it was still l'AcadÃ(c)mie Saint-Louis.] If a person of college age
> was asked that question and the answer was "Saint Louie," it was
> understood to refer to Saint Louiis University.
> In fact, this still worked, the last time that I tried it, ca.1987.
> Hearing that a certain guy was from Saint Louis, at a time when I was
> living in Cambridge, MA, I asked him where he had gone to high school.
> It is, or once was, the custom for anyone from the greater Saint Louis
> metropolitan area merely to answer that he's from Saint Louis, when
> asked where he's from, sometimes, even if he's from Illinois. So, if
> you wanted to know where he was really from, you had to ask what high
> school he had gone to. In this case, the guy answered that he had gone
> to Kirkwood High, meaning that he was from Kirkwood, MO, and not from
> Saint Louis. I told him that I had gone to Saint Louie and he
> immediately understood what I meant.
>
> Of course, until the mid '50's, Saint Louis was nearly as rigidly
> segregated as any city in the Deep South. But Saint Louis was cool
> about it. Instead of reading "No Colored" or "Whites Only," the signs
> read, "We Reserve The Right To Refuse Service To Anyone." The
> experience of a black person iin the 'Fifties woould be different from
> that of a white person in the 'Sixties.
>
> Relevant footnote: Catholic institutions were desegregated by
> arciepiscopal fiat in 1946, under the aegis of John Cardinal Ritter, a
> native of New Albany, IN, and former Archbishop of Indianopolis.
>
> -Wilson
>
> On 11/30/06, Beverly Flanigan <flanigan at ohio.edu> wrote:
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> > Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > Poster:       Beverly Flanigan <flanigan at OHIO.EDU>
>
>
> > Subject:      Re: St. Louis
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Wot?  I was at St. Louis University in the '60s (for an English Lit MA
> > under the revered Fr. Walter Ong), and I never heard it called Saint Louie
> > U!  The city, on the other hand, was often referred to as Saint Louie,
> > though mostly by outsiders; and of course the "Saint Louie Blues" were just
> > that.  (Fr. Ong used to love to talk about where T.S. Eliot was born and
> > how DeBaliviere Street was pronounced "DaBOLiver.")
> >
> > Beverly
> >
> > At 11:00 PM 11/29/2006, you wrote:
> > >As the old song went, "You came a long way from Saint Louie and, baby,
> > >you still got a long way to go."
> > >
> > >OTOH, some few people say "Sant Louie" and most others say "Saint
> > >Lewis." "Saint Louie" usually refers to Saint Louis University or to
> > >Saint Louis University High School.
> > >
> > >-Wilson
> > >
> > >On 11/29/06, James A. Landau <JJJRLandau at netscape.com> wrote:
> > >>---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > >>-----------------------
> > >>Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > >>Poster:       "James A. Landau" <JJJRLandau at NETSCAPE.COM>
> > >>Subject:      on offer
> > >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>
> > >>On Wed 11/29/06 12:11 AM  Michael Adams <madams1448 at AOL.COM> used a
> > >>phrase I've never noticed before: "on offer"
> > >>
> > >><quote>
> > >>  I haven't a clue about the etymology of "gizmo," but I wonder if anyone
> > >>else (Barry, particularly) has ever encountered it as a food term? In
> > >>eastern Pensylvania, perhaps in Philadelphia and associated New Jersey,
> > >>too, a "gizmo" was a sandwich shop item, half hamburger and half ham
> > >>sandwich -- or maybe I should say whole hamburger and whole ham
> > >>sandwich, but what I really mean is equal parts hamburger and ham
> > >>sandwich. I decided after I ate my first and only one, that it was meant
> > >>for those who couldn't get enough meat or salt from any other sandwich
> > >>on offer.
> > >></quote>
> > >>
> > >>OT comment to Jonathan Lighter:  The correct pronunciation is /seint
> > >>looey/.  /seint loois/ or /seint loo at s/ is an illiteraticism created by
> > >>monolingual Yankees who were too ignorant to bother to larn French.  At
> > >>least this illiterati haven't yet changed the pronunciation of the name
> > >>of my home town to /lewisville/.
> > >>
> > >>    - Jim Landau
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
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> > >
> > >--
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> > >come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
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> > >-Sam Clemens
> > >
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>
> --
> All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
> come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
> -----
> -Sam Clemens
>
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> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>

--
All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
-----
-Sam Clemens

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The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org