"politics" and "guys"

[Dennis R. Preston]

Wilson,

In spite of many years of Michigander life, I have resisted "you
guys" (and elliptical "guys") in this context, although I find that
the context itself rarely presents itself. Since I am a native "you
all" (but not "y'all") speaker, perhaps I felt that the local (i.e.,
MI) reception of my speech was less mocking, although I can hardly
imagine how I could be even unconsciously insecure in the face of a
bunch of Northern Cities Shifters!

dInIs

>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>-----------------------
>Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>Poster:       Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
>Subject:      Re: "politics" and "guys"
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Ca.1967, the use of "you guys" by women to address groups consisting
>entirely of women annoyed me. However, I've since been able to get
>past that. Indeed, from time to time, I've found myself addressing a
>group of women and / or girls as "you guys," when, in the course of
>monitoring my speech, I've found myself reduced to a choice of that or
>"y'all."
>
>-Wilson
>
>On 12/2/06, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at yahoo.com> wrote:
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>>  Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>  Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at YAHOO.COM>
>>  Subject:      Re: "politics" and "guys"
>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>  Sorry for stupidly identifying Lucy as _Homo erectus_.
>>
>>    She was an Australopithecine, as I well know.
>>
>>    The TV reference to "politics" described the Australopithecine kind.
>>
>>    JL
>>
>>    Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>      Pt.1
>>
>>    Some weeks back, IIRC, I posted an example of "politics" used in
>>the narrow sense of "simple power relationships in society; the
>>jockeying for influence or power," or however you care to phrase
>>it.  Some of you replied that that's pretty much what "politics"
>>always means.
>>    As you wish, post-Hobbesians.
>>
>>    As I write, though, the Discovery Science Channel is
>>rebroadcasting a 2003 rock-u-sock-u-mentary called _Walking with
>>Cavemen_. It makes a reference to "politics" among members of a
>>_Homo erectus_ troop.
>>
>>     _H. erectus_ is, of course, the human ancestor most familiar
>>through the fossil known as "Lucy."  These small critterfolk walked
>>erect but seem to have had nothing comparable to a language
>>enabling them to make political speeches, discuss nuances of
>>governing, etc.  So their "politics" must have been  pretty close
>>to animal dominance relationships. The show's narration doesn't
>>even try to suggest otherwise.
>>
>>    Pt. 2
>>
>>    Long, long ago I made vague reference to Douglas R. Hofstadter's
>>crusade against generic "you guys."  By chance, I've stumbled again
>>onto the source, and here it is:
>  >
>  >   1997 D. R. Hofstadter _Le Ton Beau de Marot_ (N.Y.: Basic
>Books) 202: In my view, the most pervasive - and for that reason by
>far the most serious - disease of sexist usage infecting
>contemporary American English is the
>to-many-people-innocuous-sounding phrase "you guys" (and related
>ways of using "guys" in directly addressing a group of people)....
>>
>>    And so on for a couple of oversize pages.
>>
>>    JL
>>
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>
>--
>All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
>come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>-----
>-Sam Clemens
>
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--
It should be the chief aim of a university professor to exhibit
himself in his own true character - that is, as an ignorant man [sic]
thinking, actively utilizing his small share of knowledge. Alfred
North Whitehead

There are many different religions in this world, but if you look at
them carefully, you'll see that they all have one thing in common:
They were invented by a giant, superintelligent slug named Dennis.
Homer Simpson

Dennis R. Preston
University Distinguished Professor
Department of English
15-C Morrill Hall
Michigan State University
East Lansing, MI 48824-1036
Phone: (517) 353-4736
Fax: (517) 353-3755
preston at msu.edu

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