Fwd: a request

[Paul Johnston]

OK, Beverly--my error (and I found it in the atlas too--East Anglian
distribution), and it occurs where I'd expect one.  Mea culpa.  In that
case, it still could be from the old past plural stem, but not an n-less
participle, because they didn't have those in East Anglia.  Upper NY and
(parts of) N PA were settled from New aEngland.

Paul Johnston


----- Original Message -----
From: "Beverly Flanigan" <flanigan at OHIO.EDU>
To: <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 4:13 PM
Subject: Re: Fwd: a request


> ---------------------- Information from the mail
header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Beverly Flanigan <flanigan at OHIO.EDU>
> Subject:      Re: Fwd: a request
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
>
> Nope, he knows what he's talking about.  And now that I'm in my office, I
> found my maps:  Atwood (1953) has the distribution of past tense of "see"
> in the Eastern States, with "see" as a variant in Upper New York State,
> northern Penn., somewhat in NJ and MD, in eastern VA and NC, and scattered
> in SC and GA--but mainly in VT, NH, MA, and CT--therefore an old form
> brought over with the earliest settlers.  (The other nonstandard variants
> mapped are 'seen' and 'seed'; standard 'saw' is not noted.)
>
> A comparison with England (Francis 1961) shows the same three variants,
> with 'see' mainly in eastern England (London, East Anglia) and somewhat in
> what looks to be the Liverpool-Manchester area (counties aren't marked on
> this map).  Hughes and Trudgill (1996) note this on p. 24, in the paradigm
> "I see, I see, I have seen."
>
> I agree, it's probably not "mainstream" anymore, but Sutcliffe wants to
> know if it's used anywhere anymore.  H and T imply that it's still used in
> England; how about here?  Among oldtimers in rural areas?  We're not
> talking stylistics here either!
>
>
> At 01:24 PM 12/13/2006, you wrote:
> >Could the questioner mean "seen"?  (Though he writes "see" twice in the
> >request.)
> >
> >--Charlie
> >_____________________________________________
> >
> >---- Original message ----
> > >Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 09:31:59 -0800
> > >From: Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at YAHOO.COM>
> > >Subject: Re: Fwd: a request
> > >To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> > >
> > >"Mainstream" vernacular ?  Good luck !  Except as part of a general
> > narrative in the historical present, this usage must be extremely
uncommmon.
> > >
> > >  JL
> >__________________________________________
> > >
> > >>Could you do me a favor and ask the ADS list something. I would like
> > have to have a citation (with place, date, etc) of past tense "see" used
> > in mainstream American English vernacular, as in "I see her yesterday" -
> > if anyone could help me with that.
> > >>
> > >>David S.
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------
> >The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
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