Nobody's Perfect Dept.

[Scot LaFaive]

This kind of scares me, but I agree that this definition for phoneme seems
wrong. A phoneme as "the smallest contrastive notional unit of sound that
may affect meaning in a given language" sounds wrong because of "may."
Shouldn't a phoneme always affect meaning as opposed to an allophone? I
don't claim to be an expert, just as learner, so maybe I'm wrong.

Scot


>From: Tom Zurinskas <truespel at HOTMAIL.COM>
>Reply-To: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>Subject: Re: Nobody's Perfect Dept.
>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2006 02:33:05 +0000
>
>---------------------- Information from the mail header
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>Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>Poster:       Tom Zurinskas <truespel at HOTMAIL.COM>
>Subject:      Re: Nobody's Perfect Dept.
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>  >  For lurkers, a phoneme is the smallest contrastive notional unit of
>sound that may affect meaning in a given language
>
>This is not a good definition.  I've never seen one with "may" in it.  That
>also means it "may not" as well.  And if it does both, why mentioin it.
>Makes no sense.
>
>You should clarify what "lurker" means.  As I understand it a lurker is one
>who is reading emails, but has not commented as yet.  It reflects nothing
>on
>their expertise or intent.
>
>Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL4+
>See truespel.com and the 4 truespel books at authorhouse.com.
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at YAHOO.COM>
> >Reply-To: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >Subject: Re: Nobody's Perfect Dept.
> >Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 09:42:28 -0800
> >
> >---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >-----------------------
> >Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at YAHOO.COM>
> >Subject:      Re: Nobody's Perfect Dept.
> >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >"The smallest significant unit in language" is also misleading. Since
> >allophones constitute morphemes,  a "phone" is in a real sense smaller,
>and
> >"significant" too, since you can't have a spoken language without phones.
> >
> >   Prof. Murfin has taught English and criticism at Yale.
> >
> >   For lurkers, a phoneme is the smallest contrastive notional unit of
> >sound that may affect meaning in a given language.
> >
> >   JL
> >
> >
> >"Arnold M. Zwicky" <zwicky at CSLI.STANFORD.EDU> wrote:
> >   ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >-----------------------
> >Sender: American Dialect Society
> >Poster: "Arnold M. Zwicky"
> >Subject: Re: Nobody's Perfect Dept.
> >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >On Dec 15, 2006, at 7:13 AM, Larry Horn wrote:
> >
> > >> >From a professional explication for undergraduates of cultural-
> > >> theory terms:
> > >>
> > >> "Phoneme... A phoneme is the smallest significant unit in
> > >> language; thus, both 'a" and 'an' are phonemes, but 'n' is not."
> > >>
> > >> --Ross C. Murfin, "Glossary of Theoretical and Critical Terms," in
> > >> Daniel R. Schwarz, ed. _Joseph Conrad: The Secret Sharer...with
> > >> Biographical and Historical Contexts...and Essays from Five
> > >> Contemporary critical Perspectives_ (Boston: Bedford Books, 1997),
> > >> p. 264.
> > >>
> > > Well, he got the -eme part right, anyway. Part credit.
> >
> >not even that. "a" and "an" are morphs, instances of a single
> >morpheme. murfin seems to be missing the abstraction in the morpheme
> >concept.
> >
> >ok, to be generous, you can read him as using "morpheme" to mean
> >'instance of a morpheme'. so there are two morphemes in "an owl" and
> >two in "a bird".
> >
> >in any case, the examples are not well chosen. the reader has to
> >figure out (from their juxtaposition) that the "a" and "an" in
> >question are the indefinite article and not any of the other things
> >spelled "a" or "an" (many of which are not morphemes). note that the
> >use of spelling is problematic. as is the fact that these morphemes
> >are also words.
> >
> >there's plenty of room here for misunderstanding.
> >
> >arnold
> >
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