learn something new every day

Fri Feb 17 02:05:12 UTC 2006

Thanks, pal. Pimpmobiles, secret agents, unflappable nuns, turkey therapists. I hope you're working on your *complete* memoirs. I'd buy one in a heartbeat.

  JL

Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
  ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
Sender: American Dialect Society
Poster: Wilson Gray
Subject: Re: learn something new every day
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you, Jon. FWIW, now that I've seen your analysis, "P" as "pee" =
"piss" strikes me as clearly transparent. ;-)

Re "spook": that term was not used within the Agency. I heard it from
outsiders. Because the Agency was supposed to be secret, there was no
"collar brass" with a symbol for it. Instead, we wore collar brass
with the symbol for "not yet assigned to any particular kind of unit,"
otherwise worn only by basic-trainees. So, of course, we stuck out
like sore thumbs. As soon as non-Agency GI's saw us, they'd say, "Oh,
we know who you guys are. You're 'spooks'!" They were under the
impression that we monitored U.S. Army-internal communications for
breaches of security.

Actually, my unit intercepted the radio-relayed telephonic
communications of the Red Army, the German Army, whether East or West,
and the East-Gernan police and translated them into English. Another
unit, about which we knew nothing, intercepted and read all snail-mail
commo between East Germany and West Germany. They sent weekly
summaries of their work to my unit. Of course, this does not preclude
the possibility that there was some unit of the Agency that did
monitor U.S. Army-internal commo. We had no need to know, so we
didn't.

A while ago, someone wrote a letter to the editor of The Times that
discussed intel. What he had to say was pure ignorance. Intel
absolutely does not work the way that that guy thinks it does. Those
who say don't know. Those who know don't say. And when those frrom the
NSA or the CIA who know pretend to say, as long as their lips are
moving or their moving fingers write, they are LYING! E.g., any
official discussion of intel that may appear in the paper, such as the
NSA interception of e-mail. A secret agency really *is* secret,
whether it's the Gestapo, the KGB, or the NSA.

The Army Security Agency has been defunct for about the past
quarter-century. Otherwise, I still would not be saying anything about
it.

I guess that it's time that I get back on point. ;-)

The official name of this job in the protocal of Military Occupation
Specialties was "voice-intercept operator." However, that was just a
cover name. Within the Agency, the job was actually known as
"scanning." The one doing it was known as a "scanner," as an "MG
scanner," or as a "Mercury-Grass scanner." All scanners were graduates
of the old U.S. Army Language School at the Presidio of Monterey, CA,
now known as the "Defense Language Institute (West-Coast Branch)," The
concept of intercepting radio-relayed telephony and translating it in
real time was itself known as "Mercury Grass." Supposedly, the British
were the first to develop this concept and "Mercury Grass" was their
code name for it. Further deponent knoweth not.

-Wilson

On 2/16/06, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender: American Dialect Society
> Poster: Jonathan Lighter
> Subject: Re: learn something new every day
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Thanks once again, Wilson. You will be quoted at the proper time.
>
> Your recollection of "spook" (intel guy) pushes it back a few years also.
>
> So if you'd been keeping a slang diary in '59, you'd be in line for the Pulitzer today.
>
> Or something.
>
> JL
>
> Wilson Gray wrote:
>
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender: American Dialect Society
> Poster: Wilson Gray
> Subject: Re: learn something new every day
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> "Bring smoke on" was in use by black G.I.'s in Germany in 1961. I first
> heard it over the Christmas holidays in 1960 from a friend, William, in St.
> Louis who had been stationed at the same German village, Baumholder, that I
> was in the process of being shipped out to. Since it was already in use
> everywhere by the time that I got to Germany only a couple of weeks later, =
> I
> figured that it was a bit of GI slang that William had picked up in
> Baumholder and brought home.
>
> Perhaps I should have continued my reading of Vietnam memoirs. I've never
> seen "bring smoke" in print. I've never looked for it in HDAS since I know
> it only as an odd bit of GI jargon that was dead to me as soon as I had
> "taken off the suit."
>
> I'd never heard "bring P" until someone else from St. Louis, Charles Ray
> ("Ray Charles" reversed, making his name easy to remember over the years)
> shipped in to Baumholder. Pretty much all that he talked about was "bringin=
> g
> P." As time passed and more new people shipped in, "bring P" continued to b=
> e
> a St. Louis thing in my mind. Even in West Berlin, the only people that I
> ever heard use it were also black GI's from St. Louis. "Get some P" and "P
> down heavy" were common St. Louisisms when I was a teenager, so it had neve=
> r
> occurred to me that, whether spelled "P" or "pee," it was anything but P
> for "piece (of pussy)" or "pussy" and not "pee" for "piss." Even if that
> possibility had occurred to me, I would have written it off as yet another
> good BE expression stolen by The Man and fucked up by him. :-)
>
> You know, if it wasn't for us, English would still be the language of the
> King James Bible. ;-)
>
> Oddly enough, being stationed in Vietnam was considered to be a far better
> deal that being stationed in Germany, in my day. At least it was supposed t=
> o
> be better if you were in the Security Agency and, therefore, a spook. (Bein=
> g
> referred to as a "spook" by white people took some getting used to, since,
> theretofore, the only slang meaning that I knew for "spook" was as a milder
> but just as annoying replacement for "nigger.") It was said that members of
> the Agency in Vietnam dressed in mufti and lived in 5-star hotels.
>
> -Wilson
>
>
>
> On 2/15/06, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> >
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> > Sender: American Dialect Society
> > Poster: Jonathan Lighter
> > Subject: Re: learn something new every day
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> ------
> >
> > So "bring smoke on" antedates the mid to late ' 60s ?
> >
> > In fact, it's far more common in Vietnam memoirs than "bring pee on,"
> > which the writers (or their copy editors) never spell as "bring P."
> >
> > So naive am I that I assumed "bring pee" to refer to
> >
> > a. a stream of machine-gun tracers at night, and
> >
> > b. the physiological result of having a stream of tracers being directe=
> d
> > at you as an individual.
> >
> > Hence the name of this thread.
> >
> > JL
> >
> >
> >
> > Wilson Gray wrote:
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> > Sender: American Dialect Society
> > Poster: Wilson Gray
> > Subject: Re: learn something new every day
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> ------
> >
> > Whoa, Jon! That *is* interesting. The Vietnam usage looks like a blend of
> > the form, "bring P on" in its "fuck over" sense, with the form, "bring
> > smok=3D
> > e
> > on," in its "shoot at" sense, with "bring P on," for whatever reason,
> > being
> > selected in place of "bring smoke on" as the canonic form. I was aware of
> > the "misuse" of "bring P on" in Vietnam and had long wondered why the
> > "correct" "bring smoke on" was not used. Perhaps "bring smoke on" was
> > regarded as too concrete, "fuck over" not being included in it as a
> > possibl=3D
> > e
> > meaning. If "bring P on" is used, there's a pun.
> >
> > -Wilson
> >
> > On 2/15/06, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> > >
> > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > > -----------------------
> > > Sender: American Dialect Society
> > > Poster: Jonathan Lighter
> > > Subject: Re: learn something new every day
> > >
> > >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> =3D
> > ------
> > >
> > > How interesting. A number of memoirs of Vietnam veterans memoirs have
> > the
> > > term "bring pee on," meaning "to subject to gun or rocket fire; to
> > terrif=3D
> > y
> > > in this way."
> > >
> > > Is this a continuation of pre-1965 usage ?
> > >
> > > JL
> > >
> > >
> > > Wilson Gray wrote:
> > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > > -----------------------
> > > Sender: American Dialect Society
> > > Poster: Wilson Gray
> > > Subject: Re: learn something new every day
> > >
> > >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> =3D
> > ------
> > >
> > > "Pea-time"/"pee-time" reminds me of an old, ca.1961, St. Louis BE usage=
> :
> > > "bring P," wherein "P" =3D3D3D "piece (of pussy)." This means "get some
> > pus=3D
> > sy"
> > > (somehow, "be succcessful in an attempt to persuade a woman to allow on=
> e
> > > to
> > > engage in sexual intercourse with her" doesn't quite succeed in
> > capturing
> > > the flavor of the phrase).
> > >
> > > These "bring" phrases are extremely rare. The only other one that I kno=
> w
> > > of
> > > is "bring smoke on someone's ass," which means "fire a gun at or shoot
> > > someone." This one was in general use and not peculiar to St. Louis.
> > Also=3D
> > ,
> > > "bring P on someone" means "fuck over someone."
> > >
> > > -Wilson
> > >
> > > On 2/15/06, Laurence Horn wrote:
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > > > -----------------------
> > > > Sender: American Dialect Society
> > > > Poster: Laurence Horn
> > > > Subject: learn something new every day
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> =3D
> > =3D3D
> > > ------
> > > >
> > > > I reproduce this message (sans link) from the daily spam collection:
> > > >
> > > >
> > =3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D=
> 3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D
> > =3D3D3D=3D3D3D
> > > > Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 8:15: 6 -0330
> > > > From: "Genevieve Swain"
> > > >
> > > > What are you to do if you have bad erection? Especially
> > > > in the forthcoming Saint Valentines Day???
> > > > Don t worry, it is not the last of pea-time...
> > > > The most simple way is to visit our site, order the
> > > > medication and that is all you are to do!
> > > >
> > > > Do not kill the clock!
> > > >
> > =3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D=
> 3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D
> > =3D3D3D=3D3D3D
> > > >
> > > > (You'll note that this was sent the day after Valentine's Day; never
> > > > to early to plan ahead for next year, it appears.)
> > > > Being wholly unfamiliar with the phrase, but assuming in the context
> > > > it was not a typo for "the last of pee-time", I googled it, and sure
> > > > enough "(like) the last of pea-time" has 157 g-hits, many with
> > > > glosses along the line of 'elderly, old, senile'. Go know.
> > > >
> > > > Larry
> > > >
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