"take and VP"
Wilson Gray
hwgray at GMAIL.COM
Fri Feb 17 21:21:35 UTC 2006
You are mean like that, Larry. :-)
-Wilson
On 2/14/06, Dennis R. Preston <preston at msu.edu> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster: "Dennis R. Preston" <preston at MSU.EDU>
> Subject: Re: "take and VP"
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> LH,
>
> You know it was a !@#$%^&**()_ing typo. But could you resist? NO!
>
> dInIs
>
>
>
> >>Wilson,
> >>
> >>Yes; this is a familiar piece of ross-ethnic regional familiarity,
> >
> >sounds like a euphemism for "Scots" ;-)
> >
> >>especially to me in the North; less frequent these days than years
> >>ago.
> >>
> >>dInIs
> >>
> >>>I agree with you there, dInIs. If the the white speakers had had any
> >>>traces of Down Home in their speech, I wouldn't have thought much of
> >>>it. I would have thought, "It's just a Southern thing, to be
> >>>expected." I remember an embarrassing moment from my Army days. I
> >>>heard some black GI's talking behind a closed door. Since black guys
> >>>were rather rare in elite, non-combat units like the Army Security
> >>>Agency, I just barged in to see who they were, where they were from,
> >>>how they came to be in the Agency, etc.
> >>>
> >>>Well, it turnrd out to be a roomful of white GI's. I was so startled
> >>>that I don't remember how I explained away my having walked in without
> >>>bothering to knock. In any case, they were all from Louisiana, so I
> >>>told them that I was from deep East Texas, only a hoot and a holler
> >>>from Sreepote and we sat around shooting the shit, for a while.
> >>>
> >>>BTW, this social anomaly may interest you, dInIs. In those days, late
> >>>'50's to early '60's, it was working-class soldiers from the North who
> >>>demonstrated the most racial animosity against their black
> >>>counterparts, not the Southern soldiers, whatever their class. It was
> >>>like "You understand. There's nothing to laugh about in the way we
> >>>talk. You know what sweetmilk and lighbread are. You eat hamhocks and
> >>>black-eyed peas, mustard/turnip/collard greens. Here in Germany, we're
> >>>all Southerners together." When we weren't on duty, I called not only
> >>>the first sergeant, but also his *wife*, by their first names. They
> >>>were Alabamians and my father was a native of Alabama. So, it was like
> >>>"Old Home Week" when I got together with them. On the other hand, the
> >>>Northern GI's referred to him as The Buzzard behind his back and
> >>>ignored the existence of his wife.
> >>>
> >>>There was another time when a white Louisianan felt such a connection
> >>>with me as a fellow Southerner that he got out his prep-school
> >>>yearbook to impress me with whaat a BMOC he had been, forgetting that
> >>>the yearbook revealed that, among his various other accomplishments,
> >>>he had been president of his school's Young White Citizens Council. I
> >>>pretended not to have noticed that, so as not to embarrass him.
> >>>
> >>>-Wilson
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>On 2/14/06, Dennis R. Preston <preston at msu.edu> wrote:
> >>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >>>>-----------------------
> >>>> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >>>> Poster: "Dennis R. Preston" <preston at MSU.EDU>
> >>>> Subject: Re: "take and VP"
> >>>>
> >>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>
> >>>> Wilson,
> >>>>
> >>>> Funny; my association with this use is by White, working-class high-
> >>>> and lowland Appalachians, not with Blacks at all.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'ma haul off and change my mind on your report (just as yours was
> >>>> changed by your experience).
> >>>>
> >>>> For me this reraises the more general question of the similarities
> >>>> of White and Black speech in the South in general, and I suspect we
> >>>> have a lot more to learn. Who learned (borrowed, stole) what from
> >>>> whom?
> >>>>
> >>>> dInIs
> >>>>
> >>>> >For a large part of my life, I've considered forms like:
> >>>> >
> >>>> >I took and hit him
> >>>> >
> >>>> >to be peculiar to Black English. However, I've now heard
> >>>> >this used by white people from states as disparate as
> >>>> >Connecticut and Illinois. A colleague from Connecticut
> >>>> >used it, bot only on very rare occasions.
> >>>> >
> >>>> >However, on today's Jerry Springer Show, there was a
> >>>> >white guy from Illinois who used "take and VP" in
> >>>> >practically every sentence, to a degree actually far greater
> >>>> >than I'm accustomed to hearing from black speakers. He
> >>>> >said things like:
> >>>> >
> >>>> >If she really loved me, she wouldn't've _took and slept_
> >>>> >with other guys
> >>>> >
> >>>> >When she asked me for things, I _took and gave_ them to
> >>>> >her, but she still _took and went out_ with other guys
> >>>> >
> >>>> >He happened to say, "We're both from the same state, Illinois."
> >>> > >Unfortunately, he didn't say what location in Illinois. Oddly,
> >>>> >neither of the other two people that he was interacting with
> >>>> >used "take and VP" at all.
> >>>> >
> >>>> >-Wilson Gray
> >>>> >
> >>>> >------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> >The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Dennis R. Preston
> >>>> University Distinguished Professor
> >>>> Department of English
> >>>> 15C Morrill Hall
> >>>> Michigan State University
> >>>> East Lansing, MI 48824
> >>>> 517-353-4736
> >>>> preston at msu.edu
> >>>>
> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>
> >>
> >>--
> >>Dennis R. Preston
> >>University Distinguished Professor
> >>Department of English
> >>15C Morrill Hall
> >>Michigan State University
> >>East Lansing, MI 48824
> >>517-353-4736
> >>preston at msu.edu
> >>
> >>------------------------------------------------------------
> >>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------
> >The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
>
> --
> Dennis R. Preston
> University Distinguished Professor
> Department of English
> Morrill Hall 15-C
> Michigan State University
> East Lansing, MI 48824-1036 USA
> Office: (517) 353-4736
> Fax: (517) 353-3755
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
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The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
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