old hat

Tue Mar 7 04:36:20 UTC 2006

For some reason, though I've heard dear old Mom use the expression all too
many times, for the life of me, I can't remember *how* she uses it. Of
course, I could simply ask her, but that would require me to communicate
with her, not a thing that I care to do. Oh, well.

-Wilson

On 3/6/06, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at YAHOO.COM>
> Subject:      Re: old hat
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Don't apologize, Wilson. My mind's been messed with by professionals.
>
>   But the sad truth is that nobody really knows the origin of "tighter
> than Dick's hatband."  The folk-theory I alluded to is only one among many.
> (It must be the most memorable because it's the only one I can think of
> right now.) There's an excellent chance that there was just a guy named Dick
> who had this hatband....
>
>   What's really remarkable is that "old hat" is now a polite synonym for
> _passe'_ (maybe a coincidence), and that its once familiar sexual sense has
> utterly disappeared.
>
>   How often does *that* happen ?
>
>   JL
>
>   Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>   ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender: American Dialect Society
> Poster: Wilson Gray
> Subject: Re: old hat
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I don't want to mess with your mind, Jon, but "tight as Dick's hatband" is
> one of my 95-year-old mother's favorite expressions. You may recall the
> discussion here in
> which I tried to defend the thesis that women have no understanding of
> slang.
> Otherwise, you wouldn't have little old ladies like my dear mom talking
> straight
> out of the gutter without realizing it. I punted after being taken to the
> woodshed
> by arnold.
>
> Since I literally learned this expression at my mother's knee, I had no
> ide=
> a
> of
> its origin till I happened upon it in Partridge. To coin a phrase, I was
> shocked!
> Shocked!
>
> And speaking of not getting it, you'd be surprised at the number of women
> who
> have quietly taken me aside to explain to me that I'm mistaken in my
> belief
> that I am the person who coined a given phrase. However, I was once
> mistakenly given credit for initiating the use of "as a matter of fact,"
> with
> "yes" understood, as an alternative to a simple "yes."
>
> -Wilson
>
>
>
>
> -Wilson
>
> On 3/6/06, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> >
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> > Sender: American Dialect Society
> > Poster: Jonathan Lighter
> > Subject: Re: old hat
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> ------
> >
> > Whoever dreamed up that pun must have been tighter than Dick's hatband.
> >
> > If you get the idea.
> >
> > JL
> >
> > Wilson Gray wrote:
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> > Sender: American Dialect Society
> > Poster: Wilson Gray
> > Subject: Re: old hat
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> ------
> >
> > Well, irregardless (What ever happened to that annoying word? And what
> > abou=3D
> > t
> > "forMIDable'? Maybe there is a God!) of my long-ago pet peeve, "old hat"
> > because it's often felt is a good one! :-)
> >
> > -Wilson
> >
> > On 3/6/06, James Smith wrote:
> > >
> > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > > -----------------------
> > > Sender: American Dialect Society
> > > Poster: James Smith
> > > Subject: Re: old hat
> > >
> > >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> =3D
> > ------
> > >
> > > I pronounce them the same or differently, depending on
> > > emphasis and context. Typical use is "y at r" for both,
> > > but "your" can be the same as "yore" and "you're"
> > > something like "you'@r" (almost not a contraction:
> > > maybe I'm not really using "you're" when I say this
> > > but rather actually saying "you are", but were I to
> > > write what I think I say, I'd use the contraction).
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> > >
> > > > You mean there's a difference ? I don't understand
> > > > what you're driving at.
> > > >
> > > > JL
> > > >
> > > > Wilson Gray wrote:
> > > > ---------------------- Information from the mail
> > > > header -----------------------
> > > > Sender: American Dialect Society
> > > > Poster: Wilson Gray
> > > > Subject: Re: old hat
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> =3D
> > ------
> > > >
> > > > The use of "your" for "you're" and the use of
> > > > "you're" for "your" in writin=3D3D
> > > > g
> > > > are so common, in my experience, as hardly to be
> > > > worthy of mention. But I a=3D3D
> > > > m
> > > > surprised to see that this phenomenon is so old,
> > > > though.
> > > >
> > > > Likewise, there are people who pronounce "your" as
> > > > though it was spelled
> > > > "you're" and who pronounce "you're" as though it was
> > > > spelled "your." In my
> > > > experience, this is a peculiarity of some dialects
> > > > of White (American)
> > > > English. I didn't become aware of it until I joined
> > > > the Army in the late
> > > > '50's. I found - and find - this usage *extremely*
> > > > annoying, to the extent
> > > > that I once foolishly tried to get such speakers not
> > > > to use it. Needless to
> > > > say, I had no success whatsoever. They didn't even
> > > > understand what I was
> > > > driving at. So, I just had to learn to live with it.
> > > >
> > > > I'd like to think that the pronunciation influences
> > > > the spelling, but I hav=3D3D
> > > > e
> > > > no evidence for this beyond wishful thinking.
> > > >
> > > > -Wilson
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 3/3/06, Jonathon Green wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > ---------------------- Information from the mail
> > > > header
> > > > > -----------------------
> > > > > Sender: American Dialect Society
> > > > > Poster: Jonathon Green
> > > > > Subject: Re: old hat
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> =3D
> > =3D3D
> > > > ------
> > > > >
> > > > > George Thompson wrote:
> > > > > > [...] I notice the nearly 100 year gap in the
> > > > OED's citations between
> > > > > 1796
> > > > > > and 1893, and that both these are from
> > > > dictionaries.
> > > > > Nice _NY Sporting Whip_ stuff, George. A couple
> > > > more mid-century
> > > > > 'free-range' examples:
> > > > >
> > > > > 1841 in _The Gentleman's Spicey Songster_ [song
> > > > title] 'Mother H's
> > > > > Knocking Shop; or, A Bit Of Old Hat!'
> > > > >
> > > > > c.1864 'The Female Auctioneer' in Anon. _The
> > > > Rakish Rhymer_ (1917) 137:
> > > > > And if your [sic] fond of nice=3D3D97 _old hat_, /
> > > > I've some that you can buy=3D3D
> > > > .
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > JG
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
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