army ranks [was: assorted comments]

[Wilson Gray]

I stand corrected. But I ain't goin' down like that.

Perhaps it's the fault of the Army itself and the teachers at the old Army
Languaage School, since the textbooks that they had prepared together always
referred to the "Red" Army. I can't recall whether the term, "Red Army,"
ever occurred in any intercepted speech, but my guess is that it didn't.
Since the speakers knew what army they were in, there was no reason to
mention it. They spoke of, e.g. the Third Shock Army or the Eighth Guards
Army in the same way that we spoke of the Seventh Army, except that our
armies lacked cool or scary nicknames. For some reason, we give nicknames
only to the shoulder patches. Like, the shoulder patch of the Seventh Army,
the representative of the U.S. Army in Europe, was called the "Seven Steps
to Hell." And even civilians are aware of the "Screaming Eagle," the
"All-American," and the "Big Red One," I think.

Let me revise that. Some U.S. Army units *do* have nicknames. Both the "Rock
of Chickamauga" and the "Black (actually interracial <har! har!>) Panthers"
were sent to Berlin to reinforce the Berlin Brigade after The Wall went up.
Would you believe that these units brought with them, at taxpayer expense,
an actual boulder the size of a half-ton truck and a live black panther?

-Wilson

On 3/29/06, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at YAHOO.COM>
> Subject:      Re: army ranks [was: assorted comments]
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> You may be older than you think, Wilson. The "Red Army" was officially
> redesignated the "Soviet Army" shortly after World War II.
>
>   Except, I suppose, for the most formal official reports, "Red Army"
> retained currency in the West for being more familiar, briefer, catchier,
> scarier, and, yes, more colorful.
>
>   JL
>
> Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>   ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender: American Dialect Society
> Poster: Wilson Gray
> Subject: Re: army ranks [was: assorted comments]
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Time certainly flies. I can remember when the former Soviet Army
> [Sovetskai=
> a
> Armiia] was still known as the Red Army [Krasnaia Armiia], long before and
> long after 1940. The historical meaning of the adjectival stem, _krasn_,
> wa=
> s
> "beautiful."
>
> This is why the name of Red, i.e. "Beautiful," Square [Krasnaia
> Ploshchod']
> predates the political use of this adjective.
>
> -Wilson
>
> On 3/28/06, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> >
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> > Sender: American Dialect Society
> > Poster: Jonathan Lighter
> > Subject: Re: army ranks [was: assorted comments]
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> ------
> >
> > There have been "colonel-generals" as well, notably in the Soviet Army
> > (and at least some of its descendants) since 1940.
> >
> > JL
> >
> > "Joel S. Berson" wrote:
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > -----------------------
> > Sender: American Dialect Society
> > Poster: "Joel S. Berson"
> > Subject: Re: army ranks [was: assorted comments]
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> ------
> >
> > The duties (for British and colonial military) are described in
> > various military manuals of the 18th century (naming only the century
> > that I have perused a little).
> >
> > In military or "command" contexts (such as commanding assistance in
> > apprehending a criminal), a colonial governor was referred to as
> > "captain-general and governor".
> >
> > But where does the colonel fit into this hierarchy? How is he
> > distinguished from the major? (A question that actually bears upon a
> > current project of mine; I don't have a good answer.)
> >
> > Joel
> >
> > At 3/28/2006 08:47 PM, you wrote:
> > >Someone once explained army ranks to me this way:
> > >Back in the days of spearmen, when proper formation was a necessity for
> > >winning battles, the sergeant was the man who was responsible for
> lining
> > up
> > >a company (or equivalent-sized unit, anywhere from 50 to maybe 200 men)
> > >properly. Companies were formed into battalions, and the man
> responsible
> > >for lining up the entire batallion was therefore a
> > >more-important-than-usual sergeant, hence a "sergeant-major". When that
> > >duty was given to an officer rather than an enlisted man, the officer
> > >dropped the "sergeant" part and became simply a "major".
> > >
> > >The man captaining the entire army was the captain-general, soon
> referre=
> d
> > >to simply as the "general", "general" in this case meaning he was the
> > >top-ranking captain in general charge of all the other various captains
> > in
> > >the army.. His assistant was rather obviously the "lieutenant-general".
> > >The man who lined up the entire army was more important than a mere
> > >sergeant-major, and since there was only such, and in general charge of
> > all
> > >alignment sergeants, he became the "sergeant-major general", later
> > >abbreviated to "major general".
> >
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