Dawgs

[Jonathan Lighter]

eRhoticism.

  JL

Beverly Flanigan <flanigan at OHIO.EDU> wrote:
  ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
Sender: American Dialect Society
Poster: Beverly Flanigan
Subject: Re: Dawgs
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oh come on, Jonathan--write it!

At 05:54 PM 10/26/2006, you wrote:
>Get ready to laff !
>
> I have a VHS tape about a sailing voyage in the 1920s around the tip of
> South America that a friend of mine wanted to borrow. I remember saying
> before he walked out the door without it, "Don't forget the Cape Horn video."
>
> My wife said, incredulously, "Gay porn video ! ?"
>
> Well, here's the funny part: the pun works no matter how rhotic you are
> ! Wild, huh ?
>
> And by the way, what do you call rhoticism on the Internet ?
>
> No, no, it's too hilarious. I can't write it !
>
> JL
>
>Alice Faber wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
>Sender: American Dialect Society
>Poster: Alice Faber
>Organization: Haskins Laboratories
>Subject: Re: Dawgs
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>I'm quite sure that Labov treats SAUCE/SOURCE in NYC as a near merger.
>
>Somewhere in my files, I have an old New Yorker article by a NYC cop
>with literary aspirations. One anecdote in this article about street
>policing deals with the apparent ambiguity of PORN SHOP/PAWN SHOP.
>
>Beverly Flanigan wrote:
> > Labov has tested many of these "near mergers" and has found that outsiders
> > generally perceive them as full mergers (homophones) but that
> > insiders/users can usually detect the subtle differences--though even they
> > can get confused sometimes when they hear the words out of context. See
> > his studies of Birmingham, Chicago, Philadelphia, and elsewhere.
> >
> > At 04:31 PM 10/26/2006, you wrote:
> >> I'm as rhotic as a native New Yorker can get, but the sauce/source merger
> >> sounds almost inevitably true for some speakers.
> >>
> >> I may, in fact, be one of those people "leveled" by radio and TV.
> >>
> >> No kidding. I can recall cultivating "r"s in first and second grade
> >> because I wanted to sound more like Gene Autrey. Most of my classmates,
> >> IIRC, were much less rhotic.
> >>
> >> JL
> >>
> >> Paul Johnston
>wrote:
> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >> -----------------------
> >> Sender: American Dialect Society
> >> Poster: Paul Johnston
> >>
> >> Subject: Re: Dawgs
> >>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >>
> >> Yes--if we take "tenseness" = " peripherality". Some reports
> >> (Labov?) suggest a near-merger of sauce/source with the V1 of the
> >> first one less "tense' or peripheral. I can't check it with my
> >> speech as I'm rhotic, but if I imitate it, it sounds like possible NYC.
> >>
> >> Paul Johnston
> >> On Oct 26, 2006, at 2:59 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> >>
> >> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >> > -----------------------
> >> > Sender: American Dialect Society
> >> > Poster: Jonathan Lighter
> >> > Subject: Re: Dawgs
> >> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > ---------
> >> >
> >> > That sounds about right, Paul. Is "tenseness" not factor here ?
> >> >
> >> > JL
> >> >
> >> > Paul Johnston
> >> wrote:
> >> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >> > -----------------------
> >> > Sender: American Dialect Society
> >> > Poster: Paul Johnston
> >> >
> >> > Subject: Re: Dawgs
> >> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > ---------
> >> >
> >> > Ranges from a raised backwards-c long monophthong (in careful
> >> > speech), through a diphthong starting with this vowel and going to
> >> > schwa (thus, [O@]), through [o@] to [U@]. V1's are slightly
> >> > centralized. I don't have a lengthened V1 in mine, but if I come out
> >> > with a monophthongal variant, it's a long one. The stereotype is
> >> > probably [U@].
> >> >
> >> > In a pattern that throws Midwesterners, I have this vowel in dog, but
> >> > centralized script a (+ or - following schwa) in all other -og words.
> >> >
> >> > Paul Johnston
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Oct 26, 2006, at 2:12 PM, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >> >> -----------------------
> >> >> Sender: American Dialect Society
> >> >> Poster: Jonathan Lighter
> >> >> Subject: Re: Dawgs
> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> -
> >> >> ---------
> >> >>
> >> >> How does one indicate the notorious NYC "dawg," also heard in
> >> >> "cawfee"?
> >> >>
> >> >> It's extra tense, I think. Not elongated, though.
> >> >>
> >> >> JL
> >> >>
> >> >> "Mark A. Mandel" wrote:
> >> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >> >> -----------------------
> >> >> Sender: American Dialect Society
> >> >> Poster: "Mark A. Mandel"
> >> >> Subject: Re: Dawgs
> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> -
> >> >> ---------
> >> >>
> >> >> Bev wrote:
> >> >>>>>
> >> >> Actually, I'll modify my vowel a bit: In this area, at least, the
> >> >> core
> >> >> vowel is midway between /a/ and /O/, the so-called "turned script a".
> >> >> <<<
> >> >>
> >> >> Cardinal "turned script a" is low back rounded: same jaw and tongue
> >> >> position
> >> >> as "script a", but with lip rounding. Is that what you mean?
> >> >> http://www.arts.gla.ac.uk/IPA/vowels.html
> >> >>
> >> >> m a m
>
>
>--
>==============================================================================
>Alice Faber faber at haskins.yale.edu
>Haskins Laboratories tel: (203) 865-6163 x258
>New Haven, CT 06511 USA fax (203) 865-8963
>
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