slang/slant
Paul Johnston
paul.johnston at WMICH.EDU
Sat Oct 28 04:46:20 UTC 2006
Most everyone? FORGET IT!!!!!! (Or rather, fageddaboudit!) You live
in New Jersey, were born in Connecticut, and say most everyone? I
hadn't noticed pre-eng raising until I came out here. When I taught
at Binghamton, my students--80% from greater NY, had simple [ae]
(lengthened), as I do--if anything, it might tend to lower a bit.
And I'm not even sure that my upstaters had anything higher than [E],
though they could have done. I don't think Philly raises it. And
I'd bet you there are parts of the South that don't either, though
many areas would owing to a completely different (and older) pre-
nasal raising/diphthongization rule that gives you pronunciations
like "braynch". It also might be lacking in parts of the West.
I see it as an Inland Northern form, primarily. You say that, you
probably drink pop instead of soda. Nothing wrong with that. But an
awful lot of Americans don't live around the Great Lakes.
Paul Johnston
On Oct 27, 2006, at 8:22 AM, Tom Zurinskas wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster: Tom Zurinskas <truespel at HOTMAIL.COM>
> Subject: Re: slang/slant
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------
>
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster: "Paul A Johnston, Jr." <paul.johnston at WMICH.EDU>
>> Subject: Re: slang/slant
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ----------
>>
>> And you've just come out with a regionalism--and one that is NOT
>> traditional in American dictionaries. My students will love you
>> for it,
>> though.
>>
>> Paul Johnston
>
> And I will love them. But really I'm just listening to m-w.com.
> They say
> slay-ng. I agree that that's the common pronunciation. So
> unfortunately
> the dictionaries are wrong.
>
> There is theory here. The brain thinks in whole sentences. The
> mouth goes
> from one phoneme to the next knowing what phonemes are coming.
> When it says
> "slang" it needs to go from the "a" to the "n" and "g". Going to
> "g" makes
> short a hard to say and "raises" it to long a. I find it very hard
> to say
> "slang" with a short a but "slant" is no problem.
>
> Basically, most everyone says "slay-ng". m-w.com says it right,
> but the
> notation should be short a. This goes for "ank" in most cases as
> well.
>
> What's your places lived history.
>
> Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL4+
> See truespel.com and the 4 truespel books at authorhouse.com.
>
>
>
>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Tom Zurinskas <truespel at HOTMAIL.COM>
>> Date: Friday, October 27, 2006 0:13 am
>> Subject: slang/slant
>>
>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------
>>> ------------
>>> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>> Poster: Tom Zurinskas <truespel at HOTMAIL.COM>
>>> Subject: slang/slant
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ------------
>>>
>>> Indeed the words "slang" and "slant" have different vowels as
>>> spoken in
>>> m-w.com. M-w.com is correct in saying that these are typical USA
>>> pronunciations, but their notation is incorrect. The word "slang"
>>> soundslike "slay" with and "ng" (that's a long a). The word slant
>>> has a short a.
>>> This goes for many "ang" words and many "ank" words as well.
>>>
>>> Say "bay", then add "nk" for "bank". That's how m-w.com says
>>> "bank".
>>>
>>> Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL4+
>>> See truespel.com and the 4 truespel books at authorhouse.com.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: "Gordon, Matthew J." <GordonMJ at MISSOURI.EDU>
>>>> Reply-To: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>>> Subject: Re: Slang poster
>>>> Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 20:22:38 -0500
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>> -----------------------
>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>> Poster: "Gordon, Matthew J." <GordonMJ at MISSOURI.EDU>
>>>> Subject: Re: Slang poster
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -------------
>>>>
>>>> Christine Zeller published an article in Journal of English
>>> Linguistics =
>>>> in 1997 that studied short-a before /g/ in Milwaukee. I pasted
>>> the =
>>>> abstract from LLBA below. Notice she suggests it's also found in =
>>>> Minnesota.
>>>>
>>>> My sense is that this raising is not historically related to the =
>>>> Northern Cities Shift. In addition to the obvious distinction
>>> that NCS =
>>>> raising is not phonologically restricted, I think this pre-/g/
>>> raising =
>>>> tends to be phonetically different from the NCS raising which
>>> frequently =
>>>> spawns diphthongal variants. I also suspect the pre-/g/ raising
>>> is =
>>>> actually older than the NCS despite Zeller's apparent-time
>>>> evidence.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Abstract: Realizations of /ae/ before voiced velars (orthographic
>>> , , ) =
>>>> are considered. Subjects (N =3D 10 adults from around Milwaukee, =
>>>> Wisconsin, 8 related by blood or marriage to the investigator)
>>> were =
>>>> tape-recorded on semantic differential, word list, & rhyming
>>> tasks. Data =
>>>> were digitized & spectrograms were generated. Formant
>>> measurements taken =
>>>> at midpoint were plotted on F1-F2 vowel charts. Younger speakers
>>> (aged =
>>>> (less than or equal to) 40) show considerable overlap in
>>> allophones of =
>>>> /ae/ & /e/, whereas older speakers (aged (greater than or equal
>>> to) 40) =
>>>> show either no significant overlap (males) or what seems to be an =
>>>> intermediate stage in the change (females). Interviews of
>>> additional =
>>>> subjects (N =3D 17 natives of Wisconsin & Minnesota) suggest that
>>> the =
>>>> sound change pervades the region. Analogues & possible sources of
>>> the =
>>>> sound change are discussed.=20
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: American Dialect Society on behalf of Beverly Flanigan
>>>> Sent: Thu 10/26/2006 7:27 PM
>>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>>> Subject: Re: Slang poster
>>>> =20
>>>> Interesting! I'm from SW Minnesota, but I now have a niece in =
>>>> Alexandria;
>>>> I'll listen to her closely next summer (she also has a pronounced =
>>>> "Canadian
>>>> raised" 'aboot', more than anyone else in the family). This may
>>> be new
>>>> since I left the state. Your blog page is also interesting; some
>>> of the
>>>> changes sound like the Northern Cities Shift, but not only raised
>>> but =
>>>> also
>>>> tensed. But are "baggel" and "vague" really lowered to /ae/ or
>>> laxed to
>>>> /E/? I wonder what Matt thinks?
>>>>
>>>> The IPA is difficult to reproduce in e-mail--unless someone has a
>>> good>suggestion?
>>>>
>>>> Beverly
>>>>
>>>> At 05:01 PM 10/26/2006, you wrote:
>>>>> Quoting Beverly Flanigan <flanigan at OHIO.EDU>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>>> -----------------------
>>>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>>>> Poster: Beverly Flanigan <flanigan at OHIO.EDU>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Slang poster
>>>>>>
>>>>> =
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -------=
>>>> ------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Where in Minnesota is your wife from? My entire family
>>> lives in =
>>>> Minnesota
>>>>>> (as I did for 25 years), and I've never heard [e] for [ae]
>>> before a =
>>>> voiced
>>>>>> velar stop.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> She grew up in St Cloud.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have found it from the Twin Cities up to the ND border but
>>> most =
>>>> reliably
>>>>> in a
>>>>> central to north-western strip. In North Dakota in the =
>>>> northern/eastern
>>>>> quarter. I mentioned it in a post a little bit ago. (Sorry
>>> about the =
>>>> title.)
>>>>>
>>>>> <http://wishydig.blogspot.com/2006/09/oyah-good-fox-up-dare.html>
>>>>>
>>>>> Several residents from these areas attest the difference in the
>>> vowel =
>>>> and just
>>>>> recently a Wisconsin resident agreed with the alternation. The
>>> most =
>>>> common
>>>>> words in which I've heard it -- and on which the speakers
>>> report they =
>>>> get the
>>>>> most reaction -- are "flag" and "bag." Very different from
>>> "flack" and
>>>>> "back."
>>>>>
>>>>> I have heard a very slight diphthongization in Michigan but
>>> never the =
>>>> complete
>>>>> raising of the vowel.
>>>>>
>>>>> Question: any suggestions for using IPA symbols in these pure-text
>>>>> messages? I
>>>>> hate to see my posts coming back to me with the bracketed html
>>> code =
>>>> instead of
>>>>> the phonetic symbols I was trying to use.
>>>>>
>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>>> --------=
>>>> -------
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Are the vowels in "slang" and "slant" pronounced the
>>> same in =
>>>> m-w.com?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL4+
>>>>>>>> See truespel.com and the 4 truespel books at
>>> authorhouse.com.> > > >
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Although the pronunciation key uses the same symbol for
>>> both, in =
>>>> the
>>>>>>> recording I
>>>>>>> hear either a slight diphthongization or a raising in "slang".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is similar to the [e] for [=E6] alternation I heard in
>>> North =
>>>> Dakota and
>>>>>>> Minnesota.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When I ask my wife to say "wagon" she says [weg?n] and when
>>> I ask =
>>>> her
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> syllabify it she says [wej - g?n]. She claims the first
>>> vowel is
>>>>>>> identical to
>>>>>>> the vowel in "ray gun." And it's a true rhyme with "Reagan"
>>> she =
>>>> offers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I recently posted the claim:
>>>>>>> "[A]pparently before a voiced velar stop or nasal (either
>>> [g] or =
>>>> [?])
>>>>>>> she raises
>>>>>>> /=E6/ to /e/. Adding the [i]/[j] diphthongisation is
>>> probably just =
>>>> a natural
>>>>>>> effect when a coda is lost and the following onset is
>>> noticeably> > > suspended."
>>>>>>>
>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>
>>>>> Michael Covarrubias
>>>>> Purdue University
>>>>> mcovarru at purdue.edu
>>>>> wishydig.blogspot.com
>>>>>
>>>>> USA - MI4, OH3, MD3, MI13, ND5, MI3, IN1+
>>>>>
>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>>
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>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
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