Not "feeling" like losing an accent (dialect?)

Mon Oct 30 23:39:31 UTC 2006

Bev,

Shall we toss all these thngs up to conjectures and hope future tesing sorts
this all out.  My conjecture is that native USA English speakers that drop
the sound "awe" and replace it with "ah" are exposed enough to the sound
"awe" through TV and radio that they can say it if they want to but they
don't want to.  As Krashen says in his conjecture, it doesn't feel right to
them.  This is opposed to your conjecture that they actually physically
"cannot say it".

Also I hope I've pointed out that illiteracy does correlate with crime, as
opposed to your conjecture that it doesn't.  And you've changed your
conjecture that dialects are locked in at 5 years of age to agree with mine
that they're not.  That's nice.

Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL4+
See truespel.com and the 4 truespel books at authorhouse.com.

>From: Beverly Flanigan <flanigan at OHIO.EDU>
>Reply-To: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>Subject: Re: Not "feeling" like losing an accent (dialect?)
>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 14:34:37 -0500
>
>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>-----------------------
>Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>Poster:       Beverly Flanigan <flanigan at OHIO.EDU>
>Subject:      Re: Not "feeling" like losing an accent (dialect?)
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Krashen's conjecture is not accepted by all second language acquisition
>(SLA) researchers, by any means.  His early claim that once you get  "the
>din [of another language] in your head" you can pronounce it in native-like
>fashion, even as an adult, is highly conjectural.  The same goes for SLA
>beyond pronunciation, as any L2 learner knows who's struggled with lexical
>nuances and syntactic subtleties.  But we (or I) did say several weeks ago
>that 5 is not absolute in second dialect acquisition, though the ability
>fades (variably) throughout adolescence and early adulthood.  Motivation is
>also a factor, of course (as Ron said), but it can't generally counteract
>biology.  Moreover, Krashen's "very well" does not necessarily mean
>"perfect," as in your presumably perfect "awe" acquisition.  He hedges his
>bets frequently below, using "best," "to some extent," "better," "not bad,"
>etc.
>
>Beverly Olson Flanigan
>Associate Professor of Linguistics
>Ohio University
>Athens, OH  45701
>
>
>At 10:30 AM 10/30/2006, you wrote:
> >Steve says we can lose accents, but we choose not to for various reasons.
>  I
> >just talked to a lady from Denver who wants to live in Roanoke VA.  She
>said
> >she was raised in Roanoke and is going back.  I said she had me fooled
>and
> >had no Roanoke dialect at all.  People do change after 5 years old.  See
> >another view below.
> >
> >Tom Z
> >
> >
> >A Conjecture on Accent in a Second Language (1997) Stephen Krashen
> >
> >Originally published in Z. Lengyel, J. Navracsics, and O. Simon (Eds. )
> >1997. Applied Linguistic Studies in Central Europe, vol 1. Department of
> >Applied Linguistics, University of Veszprem, Hungary.
> >
> >Scientists use the term "conjecture" when their generalization is based
>on
> >such flimsy evidence that it does not deserve the label "hypothesis."
>This
> >is such a case.
> >My conjecture is that accurate pronunciation in a second language, even
>in
> >adults, is acquired rapidly and very well. We simply do not use our best
> >accents because we feel silly.  Restated in more respectable terms, we
>have
> >an "output filter," a block that keeps us from doing our best, from
> >"performing our competence." This block is powerful and it is difficulty,
> >maybe impossible, to lower or weaken it with conscious effort. (The
>output
> >filter differs from the affective, or input filter.  The affective filter
> >prevents input from reaching the language acquisition device. The output
> >filter prevents us from using what we have acquired. ) Here is the flimsy
> >evidence. Much of it is based on my own experience, but I suspect, after
> >presenting these ideas to a number of audiences and getting reactions,
>that
> >others have had similar experiences.
> >1. Variability: Our accents in second languages vary, depending on how we
> >feel. We are influenced by the situation, especially whether we feel we
>are
> >being evaluated. When I speak French to someone who doesn't speak English
> >(or at least not very well), where there is no audience, and I am
> >comfortable with that person, I must say that my accent is not bad. On
>other
> >occasions I have been told that I speak French without a trace of a
>French
> >accent.  Here is an example of the latter, an experience I hope some
>readers
> >can identify with. I was visiting Ottawa in the early 1980's, meeting
>with
> >former colleagues,  discussing, in French, our work on sheltered subject
> >matter teaching which had begun when I worked there a few years before. I
> >was very comfortable with the group I was talking with; they included a
> >close friend and my former French teacher. I was doing very well.  While
>I
> >was at the chalkboard, making a point, a stranger entered the room. My
>mind
> >raced: This man is probably a native speaker of French, or at least much
> >better than I am, and he probably thinks my French is terrible. My accent
> >and fluency deteriorated immediately and involuntarily. In other words,
>my
> >output filter went up.  One of the most accomplished polyglots in the
>world,
> >Dr. Kato Lomb of Hungary, reports that she has had similar experiences.
>Now
> >88, Dr. Lomb has acquired 17 languages and is now working on Hebrew. I
> >visited Dr.  Lomb several times recently, and we spoke English (her
>English
> >is excellent). On one visit, my wife and daughter came with me. Dr. Lomb
> >remarked to me that she felt her accent in English had been better when
>we
> >were alone. She explained that she felt quite comfortable with my wife
>and
> >daughter, but the fact that she did not know them as well as she knew me
> >caused a small amount of self-consciousness and hurt her performance. Dr.
> >Lomb is an enormously successful language acquirer and an experienced
> >interpreter; if she feels the effects of the output filter, we can be
>sure
> >others do.
> >2. Our ability to imitate other dialects of our first language, as well
>as
> >foreign accents. Given sufficient input, we can all do these things to at
> >least some extent. The point is that we do not, because we would feel
> >uncomfortable doing so. The output filter holds us back.  I can imitate,
>to
> >some extent, a British accent. I have acquired the rules for doing so
> >subconsciously, and have no idea what kind of articulatory adjustments I
>am
> >making when I do it. I do not, however, use a British accent when
>speaking
> >to someone from London.  My perception is that it would be rude, and even
> >ridiculing, as if I were making fun of his speech, or as if I were
> >representing myself as someone I am not.  Similarly, we can imitate
>foreign
> >accents in our first language. Obviously, we do not do this in ordinary
> >conversation. It would, we feel, be perceived as rude.  There are domains
>in
> >which the use of these accents is permitted, in plays and jokes, for
> >example. Even in these situations, however, their use is sensitive. In
> >plays, dialects must be rendered very accurately, and in jokes their use
>can
> >be demeaning.  Our ability, yet reluctance to use accents and dialects
>again
> >shows that we do not perform our competence fully and that there are
> >powerful affective forces holding us back.
> >3. The alcohol study. Guiora, Beit-Hallahmi, Brannon, Dull, and Scovel
> >(1972) asked subjects to drink different amounts of alcohol after eating
>a
> >candy bar.  Not unexpectedly, they reported that subjects' short-term
>memory
> >decreased with greater consumption.  Accent in a foreign language,
>however,
> >was best after subjects drank 1.5 ounces of bourbon. It was less accurate
> >with both less and more than this amount of alcohol. There was, in other
> >words, an optimal point of inebriation. As most of us know, alcohol has
>the
> >effect of lowering inhibitions. My interpretation of these results is
>that
> >alcohol lowers the output filter, at least temporarily. Too much alcohol,
> >however, disturbs control of the speech apparatus.
> >4. Stevick's example. Stevick (1980) describes a Swahili class he taught
>at
> >the Foreign Service Institute that had three students in it. One was at a
> >significantly higher level than the others. When the top student had to
>drop
> >the class, the number two student suddenly showed a dramatic improvement.
>My
> >conjecture is that his output filter lowered, freed from the inhibiting
> >influence of the better student.
> >Discussion
> >To understand what factors are at work here, we need to consider what
> >language is for. Sociolinguists tell us that language has two functions:
>To
> >communicate and to mark the speaker as a member of a social group. A part
>of
> >language that plays a major role in marking us as members of a social
>group
> >is accent. Accent has little to do with communication; we can communicate
> >quite well in another language having acquired only some of the sound
> >system. Accent tells the hearer who you are, where you are from, in some
> >cases your social class, and in other cases your values. When we identify
> >with the members of a group, we talk the way they do.  Beebe's review
> >(Beebe, 1985) confirms this. We do not always imitate the speech we hear
>the
> >most. Children usually talk the way their peers talk, not the way their
> >parents or teachers talk. (In some cases, children do talk like their
> >parents; these children identify with adult values, rather than those of
> >other children, confirming that it is group membership that counts.) My
> >conjecture is that accent is acquired rapidly but is not performed,
>because
> >we do not feel like members of the group that uses it; we are not members
>of
> >the club (Smith, 1988). Either we do not wish to be members or have not
>been
> >invited to be members. And even after we feel we are at least partly in
>the
> >group, we can feel suddenly excluded, resulting in a stronger output
>filter.
> >If this conjecture is correct, it has interesting implications for
>pedagogy.
> >Despite the numerous "accent improvement" courses available, there is no
> >evidence that second language accent can be permanently improved by
>direct
> >instruction. Even if we could improve accent through instruction,
>however,
> >the effect might be harmful. Getting people to talk like members of
>groups
> >they do not belong to may be similar to convincing someone to wear
> >inappropriate clothing - a tuxedo at an informal lunch or a jogging suit
>at
> >a formal dinner.
> >This conjecture does not suggest that all those with accents in their
>second
> >language who live in the country where the language is spoken have failed
>to
> >become members of society. In fact, it suggests the contrary. Most second
> >language acquirers have good accents. Listen to them carefully. They are
> >rarely perfect if they began the second language as adults, but they
> >typically acquire an impressive amount of the sound system. They
>certainly
> >do not speak the second language using only the sound system of their
>first
> >language. The problem is that we usually make "all or nothing" judgments
> >with respect to accent. Either it is native-like or "accented." In
>reality,
> >many second language acquirers acquire substantial amounts of the second
> >language accent. In addition, it is likely that we hear them under less
>than
> >optimal affective conditions: with lower output filters, they may sound
>even
> >better.
> >If this conjecture is correct, another conclusion we can draw is that
>only
> >our "best" accents, produced under optimal conditions, should be
>considered
> >when judging accent quality or when discussing the limits of adult
> >acquisition of pronunciation.
> >References
> >Beebe, L. 1985. Input: Choosing the right stuff. In Gass, S. and Madden.
>C.
> >(Eds. ) Input in Second Language Acquisition. New York: Newbury House.
>pp.
> >404-414.
> >Guiora, A. , Beit-Hallahmi, B. , Brannon, R. , Dull, C.  and Scovel, T.
> >1972. The effects of experimentally induced changes in ego status on
> >pronunciation ability in a second language. Comprehensive Psychiatry 13:
> >421-428.
> >Smith, F. 1988. Joining the Literacy Club. Portsmouth,  NH: Heinemann.
> >Stevick, E. 1980. Teaching Languages: A Way and Ways.  New York: Newbury
> >House.
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >Stay in touch with old friends and meet new ones with Windows Live Spaces
> >http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------
> >The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
>------------------------------------------------------------
>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

_________________________________________________________________
Find a local pizza place, music store, museum and more…then map the best
route!  http://local.live.com?FORM=MGA001

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org