accusative cursing

[James C Stalker]

The dialect/language question is indeed a thorny one: do we define
languages/dialects linguistically, sociolinguistically, or politically?
Presumably Scots and Irish are now languages. not variations of English,
because the EU said they are. I can live with that.

However, I have lots of experience with an unacceptable dialect.  Briefly, I
dropped my first lingustics class at UNC-Chapel Hill because I got tired of
the linguistic anthropologists, New Yorkers and Carolinians, making fun of
my KY dialect.  I was chosen to be the informant so they could practice
their phonetic/phonemic transcription.  I was the unusual dialect, hence the
informant, and the butt of their linguistic predjudics.  So much for
cultural sensitivity among anthropological linguists.

When I then went to Wisconsin, I was again derided for my "mush in the
mouth" language, coupled with the usual cultural slurs, "don't you find
students up here smarter than Southern students?" "Came north to get an
education, huh?"  So I adopted heir dialect and dropped mine.  It was easier
than trying to educate them.  Don't tell me my KY dialect wasn't
unacceptable.

I handled it by adapting.  I think Dennis handled it in his usual "in your
face" approach.   You also might look at his research on dialect judgments,
or is that judgements?

I assume certain presuppositions on this website, among them, we all know
that all dialects/communicative systems are functional in their environmnts;
that not all dialects/communicative systems are functional out of their
native contexts; that we accept all variations of any language with
equaniminity and do not judge their value, but that not everyone follows our
enlightened lead.  I give you Imus as exhibit #1.  And, that speakers of a
particular type of English are often aware of the judgments made about their
dialect/communicative system.

I use, and prefer, the term Conventional Plublic English, rather than
Standard English, because, of course, there are no language standards, just
lots of opinions, and opinions influence conventions, but not standards.
Labov's, Wolfram's and Trudgill's research indicates that phonetic changes
work up rather than down suggests that conventions, not standards, are
altered from below.  Have you looked at your son's pants lately?

JCS



Beverly Flanigan writes:

> I don't like that "unacceptable dialects" line either.  Unacceptable to
> whom?  The opposite stigmatization occurs with "victuals," which is
> conventionally pronounced "vittles," but when it's spelled in the latter
> form is considered "dialectal" or even, I daresay, "semi-standard."  In
> fact, my students regularly think I'm pronouncing the word incorrectly,
> until I point out the derivation through Old French 'vitaille' from Latin
> 'victualia'.
>
> Reminds me of an argument I recently had in my Sociolx class about "true"
> languages.  When I said Serbian, Croatian, Slovenian, etc. now had the
> right to be called separate languages, one student said "But isn't
> Serbo-Croatian the _real_ language, and shouldn't linguists call it by its
> _true_ name?"   (I had cited Suzanne Romaine and Brian Joseph to the
> contrary.)  Ugh!
>
> Beverly Flanigan
> Ohio University
>
> At 12:09 PM 4/11/2007, you wrote:
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster:       "Dennis R. Preston" <preston at MSU.EDU>
>> Subject:      Re: accusative cursing
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ------
>>
>> This is the first time that I've run into a discussion whether a
>> purely phonological variant of a word makes it a non-word. Huh? Does
>> that fact that most of you mispronounce my name (with the "bet"
>> vowel) make it a non-name?
>>
>> dInIs
>>
>> >---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> >-----------------------
>> >Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> >Poster:       Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
>> >Subject:      Re: accusative cursing
>> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -
>> ------
>> >
>> >At 9:25 PM -0400 4/10/07, James C Stalker wrote:
>> >>Laurence Horn writes:
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>>a.k.a. "nekkid"?
>> >>>
>> >>If you wish, but since it isn't a real word, who cares about the
>> spelling?
>> >
>> >Not a real word?  "nekkid" has 822,000 raw google hits.  That doesn't
>> >necessarily make it a real word, but it does seem to suggest it's a
>> >real semi-standardized variant of one (cf. "purty", "nucular").  We
>> >need the double -k- in "nekkid" (rather than spelling it "nekid") to
>> >denote ['nEkId] rather than either ['nE(y)kId] (= the standard
>> >pronunciation of "naked") or ['nIkId] (the standard pronounciation of
>> >"knee-kid").
>> >
>> >LH
>> >
>> >>In part, I josh, but not wholly.  Are there conventional spellings for
>> >>conventionally unacceptable pronunciations in unacceptable dialects,
>> except
>> >>maybe in DARE?  Why do we need the double k?  As with Wilson, musings
>> rather
>> >>than real questions.
>> >>
>> >>JCS
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>James C. Stalker
>> >>Department of English
>> >>Michigan State University
>> >>
>> >>------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> >
>> >------------------------------------------------------------
>> >The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>>
>> --
>> It should be the chief aim of a university professor to exhibit
>> himself [sic] in his own true character - that is, as an ignorant man
>> thinking, actively utilizing his small share of knowledge. Alfred
>> North Whitehead
>>
>> Dennis R. Preston
>> University Distinguished Professor
>> Department of English
>> Morrill Hall 15-C
>> Michigan State University
>> East Lansing, MI 48824-1036 USA
>> Office: (517) 353-4736
>> Fax: (517) 353-3755
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
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>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>



James C. Stalker
Department of English
Michigan State University

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org