Piraha

[Wilson Gray]

Pei, if it was actually he whose expo that I read, claimed that, among
others things, Aborigines could be used as shepherds, despite their
inability to keep track of a herd by counting sheep (in the literal
sense), because they simply remembered what each sheep looked like.
They couldn't tell you that there were only 245 sheep when there were
supposed to be 250, but they could tell you that sheep A, E, M, N, and
Q were missing and you could run the numbers for yourself.

I once asked an Australian friend who was familiar with sheepherding
whether this story could possibly be true. [My previous post may have
been a little devil's-advocate-ish, but I still detect a whiff of
something odd in Pei's rap.] Unfortunately, these days, Aborigine
shepherds herd sheep the ordinary way, and, if they had ever done it
any other way, she didn't know what it was.

I was looking forward to this week's NYer, but there were no relevant
letters to the editor in it. Maybe next week.

-Wilson

On 4/18/07, Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at YAHOO.COM>
> Subject:      Re: Piraha
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> This time it seems real. Or "real_er_."  Observe that I cannily stated that their "language counts only to two."  Maybe they do trigonometry unconsciously but can express the results in deeds only rather than in words.  Their language does seem to go "one - or a minimal amount," "two - or a greater than minimal amount," and "many - or much."
>
>   Apparently the few Piraha~ who have learned Portuguese can use it to count a little higher, but fail as they close in on ten.
>
>   Regardless, it's a great article for an intro class because it raises so many basic issues and shows that there's plenty we don't know.  My students frequently seemed surprised at that idea.
>
>   JL
>
> Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>   ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender: American Dialect Society
> Poster: Wilson Gray
> Subject: Re: Piraha
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Isn't "They can count only to two" an antiquated fallacy, based on a
> misunderstaning of the way that the culture uses number, that was
> first applied to the languages of Australia a century ago? I seem to
> remember a discussion of this claim as a fallacy in Pei's book, The
> Story of Language. Of course, I am more than aware that no "real"
> linguist takes anything that ol' Mario has to say seriously. I first
> heard his ideas shat upon by barracks-mates at the old Army Language
> School back in 1960.
>
> And yes, I have read Colapinto's article.
>
> -Wilson
>
> On 4/18/07, Jonathan Lighter wrote:
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> > Sender: American Dialect Society
> > Poster: Jonathan Lighter
> > Subject: Piraha
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Cause your linguistics students to read John Colapinto's "The Interpreter" in the current _New Yorker_ (Apr. 16).
> >
> > It's about the Amazonian people whose language only counts to two. Many other odd linguistic and sociolinguistic elements are described also.
> >
> > JL
> >
> >
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>
> --
> All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
> come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
> -----
> -Sam'l Clemens
>
> "Experience" is the ability to recognize a mistake when you make it again.
>
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--
All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
-----
                                                      -Sam'l Clemens

"Experience" is the ability to recognize a mistake when you make it again.

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org