episodic "never" (was Re: Final call for papers: ADS 2008 Chicago)

[Laurence Horn]

At 4:11 PM -0400 8/7/07, Beverly Flanigan wrote:
>Jenny Cheshire had an article some years ago on this same punctual use of
>"never" by kids in Reading, I believe (not at hand now).  I think I recall
>hearing it too, most commonly in strong denial situations like the one
>Wilson suggests.  Maybe it's not nonstandard for most people but just
>colloquial.

To decide this, especially when "never" is used with full verb
phrases (as opposed to the free-standing "Well/No, I never"), it
would be helpful to focus on cases where you know a particular event
could only happen once, e.g. "I never killed him".  For me this would
be non-standard and not just colloquial.  Curiously, Cheshire in the
piece Beverly and I were referring to takes observers to task on
exactly this point.  I wrote in my review:

Cheshire has interesting things to say about the role of prescriptive
edicts in language change, but I am not sure what she means in
asserting that never in reference to a single past event 'has been
incorrectly labeled non-standard by sociolinguists' (p. 48); surely
this is a correct (and non-judgmental) application of the label.

(I also complained that in assuming without argument that _-n't_ is a
clitic--as opposed to an inflected form--she, along with other
authors in the volume, disregards the convincing refutation of this
assumption by Zwicky & Pullum 1983.)

LH





>
>At 03:38 PM 8/7/2007, you wrote:
>>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>-----------------------
>>Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>Poster:       Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
>>Subject:      Re: Final call for papers: ADS 2008 Chicago
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>I have to go with Ron on this one. When we moved up to Saint Louis
>>from Texas, we were struck by the ability of white neighbor kids,
>>ca.1940, to use "No, I never!" for "No, I didn't!" as well as for "No,
>>I never have / haven't (ever)!"
>>
>>-Wilson
>>
>>On 8/7/07, RonButters at aol.com <RonButters at aol.com> wrote:
>>>  ---------------------- Information from the mail header
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>>>  Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>  Poster:       RonButters at AOL.COM
>>>
>>Subject:
>>=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20=A0=20=A0=20=A0=20Re:=20[ADS-L]=20Final=20c?
>>>                = =?ISO-8859-1?Q?all=20for=20papers:=20ADS=202008=20Chicago?=
>>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>  In a message dated 8/7/07 11:30:19 AM, preston at MSU.EDU writes:
>>>
>>>
>>>  > For
>>>  > example, "never" is apparently standard in "I never went there" for
>>>  > "At no time in the past did I got there" but nonstandard for "I
>>>  > didn't go there."
>>>  >
>>>
>>>  So "standard" American English has some kind of punctual-versus-eternal
>>>  aspect? Not for me, I think (maybe for young guys such as Dennis), is
>>"I never went
>>>  there" 'standard' for either case, though I could say it informally whether
>>>  my meaning was 'I have never gone there' or 'I didn't go there at the
>>time that
>>>  instant in time that is at issue in our conversation." If someone says
>>to me,
>>>  "I never went there"--whether it is Dennis, Arnold, Frank, or some totally
>>>  vernacular speaker, I cannot know, except for context, whether the time
>>>  described is punctual or eternal.
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>--
>>All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
>>come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>>-----
>>                                               -Sam'l Clemens
>>
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