who -> that [Was: Seeking a Polish female that ...]

[Wilson Gray]

FWIW, this Lubbockite's speech was so different from what I was
accustomed to hearing that. at first, I thought that he was just
exaggerating for effect. I.e., "Ah'm from West Texas and this is the
way that we-all tawk." But his second-banana-in-a-horse-opera manner
of speech never changed. OTOH, he was intrigued by my manner of
speech. He felt that, given that I was born in East Texas and grew up
there and in Saint Louis, I should have had a more Southern-black
accent. He was right, of course. I sounded less Southern than expected
because I made, and still make, a conscious effort never, under normal
circumstances, to sound Southern when talking to white people.

Upon occasion, white roommates and friends have pointed out to me that
I use a "completely" different style of speech when I'm talking on the
telephone to my black relatives and friends. This has always given me
a laugh, because, knowing that white people are listening, I use
speech patterns are not nearly as black as they would be, if there
were no white people within earshot. My style of speech when talking
to other black people is not "completely" different, at all. It's only
slightly different. Indeed, black friends often ask, "What's the
matter, man? White folk in the room with you?"

I consider The Two Johns to be far better at this kind of thing than I
am. IMO, they are better both at black speech and at white speech than
I am. They're very impressive.

-Wilson, chompin' at the bit an' rarin' to git, as we say in Texas


On 8/7/07, Arnold M. Zwicky <zwicky at csli.stanford.edu> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       "Arnold M. Zwicky" <zwicky at CSLI.STANFORD.EDU>
> Subject:      Re: who -> that [Was: Seeking a Polish female that ...]
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> On Aug 7, 2007, at 1:03 PM, Larry Horn wrote:
>
> > At 3:53 PM -0400 8/7/07, Wilson Gray wrote:
> >> If you're about ten years older than I am and from Lubbock, TX, "wh-
> >> that" sentences are still possible. The guy sounded like a cowboy
> >> extra in a '40's horse opera, eg. "... who that I was a-tellin' y'all
> >> about." Since ten years older than I am would place him in his 80's,
> >> there may not be many such speakers left.
> >>
> >> -Wilson
> >
> > I remember it being mentioned that there were some such exotic
> > speakers still around, but I couldn't recall where.  Thanks for the
> > pointer!
>
> you were probably recalling references to
>
> Zwicky, Arnold M.  2002.  I wonder what kind of construction that
> this example illustrates.  Beaver et al. 2002:219-48.
>
> Beaver, David I., Luis D. Casillas Martínez, Brady Z. Clark, & Stefan
> Kaufmann (eds.).  2002.  The construction of meaning.  Stanford CA:
> CSLI.
>
> and to works cited therein, notably:
>
> Seppa"nen, Aimo & Joe Trotta.  2000.  The wh- + that pattern in
> present-day English.  Kirk 2000:161-75.
>
> Kirk, John M. (ed.).  2000.  Corpora galore: Analyses and techniques
> in describing English. Amsterdam: Rodopi.
>
> but the examples i collected (and am still collecting) all have a wh-
> expression of at least two words preceding the "that".  i have *no*
> examples of things like "who that" in modern english (though they
> were common in (much) older english).  [i exclude, of course, cases
> where the "that" heads a relative modifying "who" or another wh-word:
> Who that you know likes Disney movies?]
>
> josef bayer has looked at some pretty similar phenomena in varieties
> of german.
>
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>


--
All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
-----
                                              -Sam'l Clemens

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