the 1966 "nine yards" audience listed

[Stephen Goranson]

Quoting "Mullins, Bill AMRDEC" <Bill.Mullins at US.ARMY.MIL>:

>>  "Shepard, Alan B., Jr.,
>> Capt." is listed as "USN," even though he was the first U.S.
>> astronaut to go up (in 1961).
>
> That he is listed as USN isn't particularly unusual.  Many astronauts
> have been active-duty military personnel, who are detailed from their
> service to NASA.  They retain their rank and military status, and in
> my limited experience, continue to think of themselves primarily as
> Navy/AF/Army/Marines etc., and secondarily as NASA/astronauts.

My point was simply that the NASA representation was greater than those listed
with NASA by their names. My more important observations on the 1966 attendees
were that defense contracting presence was large; that the military were not
all Air Force; and that Congress was represented too; and that tradents might be
identified or suggested. (Alan Shepard lived on the next block in Virginia
Beach; my Father was a career Navy officer; I am aware one could be in both the
Navy and NASA.)


>>  Of course the 1964 NASA slang
>> citation does not prove that the phrase
>> *originated* in NASA, only that it was used there; much less
>> does the 1968 Air Academy Slang citation prove that it
>> started at the Academy nor in the Air Force.
>
> Then how does the non-slang use by ADM Land indicate that he originated
> a slang usage?

I wrote that Land was speaking in plain, emphatic, dramatic language at a
hearing that was important to the war effort--important to FDR, to Truman, to
the NY Times, to defense contractors, to Britain, to labor unions, and to many
others. The shipbuilding goal was a big goal, and one sought quickly. The
biggest shipbuilding push in history demanded high productivity from the nine
new shipyards specially created for the purpose. 24/7 work, going "all out" at
the LA Times put it. The slang phrase (often used of a big deal) had a
non-slang original (or Vorlage) from which the metaphoric usage took off. If,
for example, there had been then concrete trucks that held 9 cubic yards, the
phrase could have an original plain request, followed by metaphoric use. Or
nine yardarms, plain speech; then metaphoric; and so on for most proposals. A
difference here was an unplanned usage, rather than a oft-repeated original
plain workaday usage. But the original was not cubic yards, nor linear yards,
judging fron the earliest examples; the original "yards" would be some other
yards than 36-inch yards. (And there are enough examples by know to see where
some diverge, e.g. $100 yard and whole nine as $1000; and probably some
misunderstanding of the original by Smash and then by Elaine Shepard.) The
original (well-attested use, in context, not a google book chimera) is in U.S.
defence contracting circles; several early uses are too. Many people have the
sense that the phrase started in World War II. It appears that that part (not
machine-gun belts) was right. I am not saying that Land set out to give a basis
for slang, nor necessarily that he was first to use that slang. He died in 1971,
still active in defense contracting, including Navy, Air Force and NASA, so it
is plausible that he at least heard the slang, if not used it. Obviously there
is more to learn about the transmission. Perhaps you'll help.

Previously, I was mistaken that the yards were slangily-called Montagnards; I
was mistaken, as shown not by disdain but by three facts: 1964 and two new 1966
citations. Robert Mole had written explicitly of Nine Montagnard Tribes in I
Corps area in 1966, which overlaps with Elaine Shepard's book remarkably, in
time and space--a remarkable coincidence, but not as it turned out the origin. I
erred in assuming that since no pre 1966 cites were known to this list, such
citations were improbable. I was wrong about that; I am more aware of the limits
of the list (and also of various important but fallible reference works).
In fact after the recent 1964 and 1966 citations were posted, but before I
found the 1942 citation, I was at the grocery store and saw a professor of
history who also had been a NASA historian. I told him of the recent
NASA-related find. He replied that he didn't know it as specifically NASA
slang. He mentioned his sense that it was from World War II. Not likely, I
assured him; heavy-duty searchers have searched, and nary a World War II period
citation (even though the 1964 usage with exceedingly-high probability isn't
the first usage). Then, a day or two later, I got the hearing from storage and
found one: "for the whole nine yards." (That longer form with "for the..."
itself gets 69 raw Google Books hits.) A usage that reappears in Defense
hearings and defense contracting circles. So far, other than the helpful whole
/all, mass/count comments of Laurence Horn and Clai Rice (thanks) and the 1964
and 1966 new citations (thanks), I have gotten more useful observations from
people offlist.  Unexplained dismissals aren't collegial or constructive. Dave
Wilton's repeated assurance that Senate hearing are generally unnoticed, with
whatever merits generally, does not fit the history I've learned about this
specific hearing. Is there a better hypothesis? Does anyone know that 1942 is
too early? Do slang phrases never arise from a non-metaphoric original? Do
others care to declare this proposal excluded from consideration? Does anyone
dispute that appearance in Air Academy slang does not necessarily mean it
started there (or, similarly, in NASA)? I have been wrong before, but my
current expectation is that this case history will eventually be filled in,
regardless of the level of interest here.
This list is pretty good at some things, and might help.

Stephen Goranson
http://www.duke.edu/~goranson

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