The earth v. Earth (UNCLASSIFIED)
Joel S. Berson
Berson at ATT.NET
Wed Aug 8 20:38:09 UTC 2007
And then there's "I caught two fish / fishes."
Joel
At 8/8/2007 02:08 PM, you wrote:
>Michael,
>
>I think this is counting noncounts, as in "two rices" (i.e., two
>different styles of rice), but maybe not. You seem to like it for two
>cases of the same kind. I think "I had two scarlet fevers when I was
>a kid" (for two bouts, cases, etc...) is jest horrible.
>
>One week to go. I see you avoid "Lesbians," but they do not.
>
>Dennis
>
>
>
>>---------------------- Information from the mail header
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>>Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>Poster: Montgomery Michael <ullans at YAHOO.COM>
>>Subject: Re: The earth v. Earth (UNCLASSIFIED)
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>Hey Dennis
>>
>>The possibility that comes most immediately to mind is
>>"fever," which in the mountains/country usually
>>means/meant specifically "typhoid." I don't have a
>>citation to offer, but I think it quite possible to
>>have sentences like "he nearly died of two fevers when
>>he was a child," with the meaning of "two
>>bouts/epidemics of typhoid."
>>
>>If you're dead keen to explore this further, I'll
>>contact some local authorities. When are you off for
>>your summer consort withthe Lesbosians?
>>
>>Michael
>>
>>--- "Dennis R. Preston" <preston at MSU.EDU> wrote:
>>
>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail
>>> header -----------------------
>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>> <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>> Poster: "Dennis R. Preston" <preston at MSU.EDU>
>>> Subject: Re: The earth v. Earth (UNCLASSIFIED)
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Thanks Michael; my own favorite is "the epizootic,"
>>> although DARE
>>> shows it is not at all limited to the South
>>> Midlands.
>>>
>>> There are some very interesting low-level
>>> constraints going on here.
>>> Note how bad (I think) "I had two colds last year"
>>> is compared to "I
>>> had two really very bad colds last year." But that
>>> "distance" metric
>>> applies to lots of agreement features.
>>>
>>> Is any illness/disease name an ordinary count noun?
>>>
>>> My daughter caught three _____ last year.
>>>
>>> I nearly died from two _____ last year.
>>>
>>> dInIs
>>>
>>> >---------------------- Information from the mail
>>> header
>>> >-----------------------
>>> >Sender: American Dialect Society
>>> <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>> >Poster: Montgomery Michael <ullans at YAHOO.COM>
>>> >Subject: Re: The earth v. Earth (UNCLASSIFIED)
>>>
>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >
>>> >In the South Midland names of diseases and
>>> illnesses
>>> >are often preceded by the definite article. "The
>>> >cancer" is certainly known, but I think "the sugar"
>>> =
>>> >"diabetes" would be far more common. My favorites
>>> are
>>> >"the hippoes" and "the mulligrubs." I've also
>>> heard
>>> >"the typhoid," etc. "The measles" is ubiquitous,
>>> but
>>> >I suspect this may have a much broader regional
>>> >distribution. We eagerly await DARE V for a
>>> >splendiferous display of definite article usage.
>>> >
>>> >"The" with diseases is definitely a Scotch-Irish
>>> >inheritance. Check out _the_ def. art. sense 4 in
>>> the
>>> >Scottish National Dictionary. This can be found
>>> >on-line at the wonderful Dictionary of the Scots
>>> >Language website, which incorporates both the SND
>>> and
>>> >the Dictionary of the Older Scottish Tongue. This
>>> >philological resource that approaches the magnitude
>>> of
>>> >the OED is available free at www.dsl.ac.uk. I
>>> don't
>>> >think that it has gotten enough publicity on this
>>> side
>>> >of the water, though, so I'm blowing the bugle to
>>> >consult it, if ADSers will pardon me.
>>> >
>>> >Michael
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >--- Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail
>>> >> header -----------------------
>>> >> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>> >> <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>> >> Poster: Laurence Horn
>>> <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
>>> >> Subject: Re: The earth v. Earth
>>> (UNCLASSIFIED)
>> > >>
>>>
>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >>
>>> >> At 10:28 AM -0500 8/8/07, Mullins, Bill AMRDEC
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >> >Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>>> >> >Caveats: NONE
>>> >> >
>>> >> >I've heard folks in the rural South referring
>>> to
>>> >> having "the cancer"
>>> >> >instead of what seems to me to be standard
>>> usage
>>> >> "cancer".
>>> >>
>>> >> In the urban North it may not be "the cancer"
>>> but
>>> >> it's often "the big C".
>>> >>
>>> >> LH
>>> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> >> -----Original Message-----
>>> >> >> From: American Dialect Society
>>> >> >> [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of
>>> >> Doug Harris
>>> >> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 9:08 AM
>>> >> >> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>> >> >> Subject: Re: The earth v. Earth
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> ---------------------- Information from the
>>> mail
>>> >> header
>>> >> >> -----------------------
>>> >> >> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>> >> <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>> >> >> Poster: Doug Harris
>>> >> <cats22 at FRONTIERNET.NET>
>>> >> >> Subject: Re: The earth v. Earth
>>> >> >>
>>> >>
>>>
>>>--------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >> >> -----------------
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> On a _much_ smaller scale (but similarly
>>> >> curious,
>>> >> >> language-wise), is the British practice of
>>> >> referring to
>>> >> >> certain countries with the 'the' article
>>> >> preceding their
>>> >> >> name. To wit, The Gambia, The Lebanon.
>>> >> >> I believe I know the historic logic for
>>> this,
>>> >> but there was a
>>> >> >> similar logic for their use of the
>>> 'aeroplane /
>>> >> aeroport'
>>> >> >> spellings, which The Sunday Telegraph (and
>>> >> others) persisted
>>> >> >> in using until at least the 1980's. Wisely,
>>> >> though, albeit
>>> >> >> with much kicking and screaming, I imagine,
>>> the
>>> >> latter paper
>>> >> >> seems to have come 'round to using 'airport'
>>> >> _except_ when
>>> >> >> referring to the French versions of places
>>> where
>>> > > aero...
>>> >> >> whoops, airplanes land.
>>> >> >> (the other) doug
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> I'm pretty sure - though I wouldn't bet
>>> money on
>>> >> it - that,
>>> >> >> back in the '40's and '50's - the earth was
>>> >> referred to as
>>> >> >> "_the_ earth." More recently, it seems to
>>> me,
>>> >> "the earth" has
>>> >> >> been replaced by "Earth."
>>> >> >> Here's an instance that's neither "the
>>> earth"
>>> >> nor "Earth." It
>>> >> >> could be a simple typo, however.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> -Wilson
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >>
>>>
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>>>
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>
>
>--
>Dennis R. Preston
>University Distinguished Professor
>Department of English
>15C Morrill Hall
>Michigan State University
>East Lansing, MI 48824
>517-353-4736
>preston at msu.edu
>
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