The earth v. Earth (UNCLASSIFIED)

Dennis R. Preston preston at MSU.EDU
Wed Aug 8 20:50:08 UTC 2007


Yeah, I like the variation in "game animal" plurals too.

I shot two

bear/s
deer/s
partridge/s
quail/s
elk/s
etc...

versus

I saw two
bear/s
etc....

The 's' plurals are all better for me when I see them rather than shoot them.

BUT, for me, almost all fish plurals are bad, catching or seeing:

I caught/saw two
perches
basses
pikes
etc...
UGH!


BUT the more syllables the better:

I caught/saw two
crappies
muskies
flounders
etc...
(not too bad)

dInIs, who, just like all you minimalists out there, is becoming more
and more convinced that there's a load of information in the lexicon

>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>-----------------------
>Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
>Subject:      Re: The earth v. Earth (UNCLASSIFIED)
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>And then there's "I caught two fish / fishes."
>
>Joel
>
>At 8/8/2007 02:08 PM, you wrote:
>>Michael,
>>
>>I think this is counting noncounts, as in "two rices" (i.e., two
>>different styles of rice), but maybe not. You seem to like it for two
>>cases of the same kind. I think "I had two scarlet fevers when I was
>>a kid" (for two bouts, cases, etc...) is jest horrible.
>>
>>One week to go. I see you avoid "Lesbians," but they do not.
>>
>>Dennis
>>
>>
>>
>>>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>-----------------------
>>>Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>Poster:       Montgomery Michael <ullans at YAHOO.COM>
>>>Subject:      Re: The earth v. Earth (UNCLASSIFIED)
>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>Hey Dennis
>>>
>>>The possibility that comes most immediately to mind is
>>>"fever," which in the mountains/country usually
>>>means/meant specifically "typhoid."  I don't have a
>>>citation to offer, but I think it quite possible to
>>>have sentences like "he nearly died of two fevers when
>>>he was a child," with the meaning of "two
>>>bouts/epidemics of typhoid."
>>>
>>>If you're dead keen to explore this further, I'll
>>>contact some local authorities.  When are you off for
>>>your summer consort withthe Lesbosians?
>>>
>>>Michael
>>>
>>>--- "Dennis R. Preston" <preston at MSU.EDU> wrote:
>>>
>>>>   ---------------------- Information from the mail
>>>>   header -----------------------
>>>>   Sender:       American Dialect Society
>>>>   <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>>   Poster:       "Dennis R. Preston" <preston at MSU.EDU>
>>>>   Subject:      Re: The earth v. Earth (UNCLASSIFIED)
>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>   Thanks Michael; my own favorite is "the epizootic,"
>>>>   although DARE
>>>>   shows it is not at all limited to the South
>>>>   Midlands.
>>>>
>>>>   There are some very interesting low-level
>>>>   constraints going on here.
>>>>   Note how bad (I think) "I had two colds last year"
>>>>   is compared to "I
>>>>   had two really very bad colds last year." But that
>>>>   "distance" metric
>>>>   applies to lots of agreement features.
>>>>
>>>>   Is any illness/disease name an ordinary count noun?
>>>>
>>>>   My daughter caught three _____ last year.
>>>>
>>>>   I nearly died from two _____ last year.
>>>>
>>>>   dInIs
>>>>
>>>>   >---------------------- Information from the mail
>>>>   header
>>>>   >-----------------------
>>>>   >Sender:       American Dialect Society
>>>>   <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>>   >Poster:       Montgomery Michael <ullans at YAHOO.COM>
>>>>   >Subject:      Re: The earth v. Earth (UNCLASSIFIED)
>>>>
>>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>   >
>>>>   >In the South Midland names of diseases and
>>>>   illnesses
>>>>   >are often preceded by the definite article.  "The
>>>>   >cancer" is certainly known, but I think "the sugar"
>>>>   =
>>>>   >"diabetes" would be far more common.  My favorites
>>>>   are
>>>>   >"the hippoes" and "the mulligrubs."  I've also
>  >>>  heard
>>>>   >"the typhoid," etc.  "The measles" is ubiquitous,
>>>>   but
>>>>   >I suspect this may have a much broader regional
>>>>   >distribution.  We eagerly await DARE V for a
>>>>   >splendiferous display of definite article usage.
>>>>   >
>>>>   >"The" with diseases is definitely a Scotch-Irish
>>>>   >inheritance.  Check out _the_ def. art. sense 4 in
>>>>   the
>>>>   >Scottish National Dictionary.  This can be found
>  >>>  >on-line at the wonderful Dictionary of the Scots
>>>>   >Language website, which incorporates both the SND
>>>>   and
>>>>   >the Dictionary of the Older Scottish Tongue.  This
>>>>   >philological resource that approaches the magnitude
>>>>   of
>>>>   >the OED is available free at www.dsl.ac.uk.  I
>>>>   don't
>>>>   >think that it has gotten enough publicity on this
>>>>   side
>>>>   >of the water, though, so I'm blowing the bugle to
>>>>   >consult it, if ADSers will pardon me.
>>>>   >
>>>>   >Michael
>>>>   >
>>>>   >
>>>>   >--- Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU> wrote:
>>>>   >
>>>>   >>  ---------------------- Information from the mail
>>>>   >>  header -----------------------
>>>>   >>  Sender:       American Dialect Society
>>>>   >>  <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>>   >>  Poster:       Laurence Horn
>>>>   <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
>>>>   >>  Subject:      Re: The earth v. Earth
>>>>   (UNCLASSIFIED)
>>>   > >>
>>>>
>>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>   >>
>>>>   >>  At 10:28 AM -0500 8/8/07, Mullins, Bill AMRDEC
>>>>   >>  wrote:
>>>>   >>  >Classification:  UNCLASSIFIED
>>>>   >>  >Caveats: NONE
>>>>   >>  >
>>>>   >>  >I've heard folks in the rural South referring
>>>>   to
>>>>   >>  having "the cancer"
>>>>   >>  >instead of what seems to me to be standard
>>>>   usage
>>>>   >>  "cancer".
>>>>   >>
>>>>   >>  In the urban North it may not be "the cancer"
>>>>   but
>>>>   >>  it's often "the big C".
>>>>   >>
>>>>   >>  LH
>>>>   >>
>>>>   >>  >
>>>>   >>  >>  -----Original Message-----
>>>>   >>  >>  From: American Dialect Society
>>>>   >>  >>  [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of
>>>>   >>  Doug Harris
>>>>   >>  >>  Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 9:08 AM
>>>>   >>  >>  To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>>>   >>  >>  Subject: Re: The earth v. Earth
>>>>   >>  >>
>>>>   >>  >>  ---------------------- Information from the
>>>>   mail
>>>>   >>  header
>>>>   >>  >>  -----------------------
>>>>   >>  >>  Sender:       American Dialect Society
>>>>   >>  <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>>   >>  >>  Poster:       Doug Harris
>>>>   >>  <cats22 at FRONTIERNET.NET>
>>>>   >>  >>  Subject:      Re: The earth v. Earth
>>>>   >>  >>
>>>>   >>
>>>>
>>>>--------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>   >>  >>  -----------------
>>>>   >>  >>
>>>>   >>  >>  On a _much_ smaller scale (but similarly
>>>>   >>  curious,
>>>>   >>  >>  language-wise), is the British practice of
>>>>   >>  referring to
>>>>   >>  >>  certain countries with the 'the' article
>>>>   >>  preceding their
>>>>   >>  >>  name. To wit, The Gambia, The Lebanon.
>>>>   >>  >>  I believe I know the historic logic for
>>>>   this,
>>>>   >>  but there was a
>>>>   >>  >>  similar logic for their use of the
>>>>   'aeroplane /
>>>>   >>  aeroport'
>>>>   >>  >>  spellings, which The Sunday Telegraph (and
>>>>   >>  others) persisted
>>>>   >>  >>  in using until at least the 1980's. Wisely,
>>>>   >>  though, albeit
>>>>   >>  >>  with much kicking and screaming, I imagine,
>>>>   the
>>>>   >>  latter paper
>>>>   >>  >>  seems to have come 'round to using 'airport'
>>>>   >>  _except_ when
>>>>   >>  >>  referring to the French versions of places
>>>>   where
>>>>   >  > aero...
>>>>   >>  >>  whoops, airplanes land.
>>>>   >>  >>  (the other) doug
>>>>   >>  >>
>>>>   >>  >>
>>>>   >>  >>
>>>>   >>  >>  I'm pretty sure - though I wouldn't bet
>>>>   money on
>>>>   >>  it - that,
>>>>   >>  >>  back in the '40's and '50's - the earth was
>>>>   >>  referred to as
>>>>   >>  >>  "_the_ earth." More recently, it seems to
>>>>   me,
>>>>   >>  "the earth" has
>>>>   >>  >>  been replaced by "Earth."
>>>>   >>  >>  Here's an instance that's neither "the
>>>>   earth"
>>>>   >>  nor "Earth." It
>>>>   >>  >>  could be a simple typo, however.
>>>>   >>  >>
>>>>   >>  >>  -Wilson
>>>>   >>  >>
>  >>>  >>  >>
>>>>   >>
>>>>
>>>>------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>   >>  >>  The American Dialect Society -
>>>>   >>  http://www.americandialect.org
>>>>   >>  >>
>>>>   >>  >Classification:  UNCLASSIFIED
>>>>   >>  >Caveats: NONE
>>>>   >>  >
>>>>   >>
>>>>
>>>>>------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>>   >>  http://www.americandialect.org
>  >>>  >>
>>>>   >>
>>>>
>>>>------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>   >>  The American Dialect Society -
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>>>>   >>
>>>>   >
>>>>   >
>>>>   >
>>>>   >
>>>>
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>>>=== message truncated ===
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>--
>>Dennis R. Preston
>>University Distinguished Professor
>>Department of English
>>15C Morrill Hall
>>Michigan State University
>>East Lansing, MI 48824
>>517-353-4736
>>preston at msu.edu
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------
>>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
>------------------------------------------------------------
>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org


--
Dennis R. Preston
University Distinguished Professor
Department of English
15C Morrill Hall
Michigan State University
East Lansing, MI 48824
517-353-4736
preston at msu.edu

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The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org



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