The earth v. Earth (UNCLASSIFIED)
Dennis R. Preston
preston at MSU.EDU
Wed Aug 8 20:50:08 UTC 2007
Yeah, I like the variation in "game animal" plurals too.
I shot two
bear/s
deer/s
partridge/s
quail/s
elk/s
etc...
versus
I saw two
bear/s
etc....
The 's' plurals are all better for me when I see them rather than shoot them.
BUT, for me, almost all fish plurals are bad, catching or seeing:
I caught/saw two
perches
basses
pikes
etc...
UGH!
BUT the more syllables the better:
I caught/saw two
crappies
muskies
flounders
etc...
(not too bad)
dInIs, who, just like all you minimalists out there, is becoming more
and more convinced that there's a load of information in the lexicon
>---------------------- Information from the mail header
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>Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>Poster: "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
>Subject: Re: The earth v. Earth (UNCLASSIFIED)
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>And then there's "I caught two fish / fishes."
>
>Joel
>
>At 8/8/2007 02:08 PM, you wrote:
>>Michael,
>>
>>I think this is counting noncounts, as in "two rices" (i.e., two
>>different styles of rice), but maybe not. You seem to like it for two
>>cases of the same kind. I think "I had two scarlet fevers when I was
>>a kid" (for two bouts, cases, etc...) is jest horrible.
>>
>>One week to go. I see you avoid "Lesbians," but they do not.
>>
>>Dennis
>>
>>
>>
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>>>Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>Poster: Montgomery Michael <ullans at YAHOO.COM>
>>>Subject: Re: The earth v. Earth (UNCLASSIFIED)
>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>Hey Dennis
>>>
>>>The possibility that comes most immediately to mind is
>>>"fever," which in the mountains/country usually
>>>means/meant specifically "typhoid." I don't have a
>>>citation to offer, but I think it quite possible to
>>>have sentences like "he nearly died of two fevers when
>>>he was a child," with the meaning of "two
>>>bouts/epidemics of typhoid."
>>>
>>>If you're dead keen to explore this further, I'll
>>>contact some local authorities. When are you off for
>>>your summer consort withthe Lesbosians?
>>>
>>>Michael
>>>
>>>--- "Dennis R. Preston" <preston at MSU.EDU> wrote:
>>>
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>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>> <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>> Poster: "Dennis R. Preston" <preston at MSU.EDU>
>>>> Subject: Re: The earth v. Earth (UNCLASSIFIED)
>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Thanks Michael; my own favorite is "the epizootic,"
>>>> although DARE
>>>> shows it is not at all limited to the South
>>>> Midlands.
>>>>
>>>> There are some very interesting low-level
>>>> constraints going on here.
>>>> Note how bad (I think) "I had two colds last year"
>>>> is compared to "I
>>>> had two really very bad colds last year." But that
>>>> "distance" metric
>>>> applies to lots of agreement features.
>>>>
>>>> Is any illness/disease name an ordinary count noun?
>>>>
>>>> My daughter caught three _____ last year.
>>>>
>>>> I nearly died from two _____ last year.
>>>>
>>>> dInIs
>>>>
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>>>> >Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>> <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>> >Poster: Montgomery Michael <ullans at YAHOO.COM>
>>>> >Subject: Re: The earth v. Earth (UNCLASSIFIED)
>>>>
>>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> >
>>>> >In the South Midland names of diseases and
>>>> illnesses
>>>> >are often preceded by the definite article. "The
>>>> >cancer" is certainly known, but I think "the sugar"
>>>> =
>>>> >"diabetes" would be far more common. My favorites
>>>> are
>>>> >"the hippoes" and "the mulligrubs." I've also
> >>> heard
>>>> >"the typhoid," etc. "The measles" is ubiquitous,
>>>> but
>>>> >I suspect this may have a much broader regional
>>>> >distribution. We eagerly await DARE V for a
>>>> >splendiferous display of definite article usage.
>>>> >
>>>> >"The" with diseases is definitely a Scotch-Irish
>>>> >inheritance. Check out _the_ def. art. sense 4 in
>>>> the
>>>> >Scottish National Dictionary. This can be found
> >>> >on-line at the wonderful Dictionary of the Scots
>>>> >Language website, which incorporates both the SND
>>>> and
>>>> >the Dictionary of the Older Scottish Tongue. This
>>>> >philological resource that approaches the magnitude
>>>> of
>>>> >the OED is available free at www.dsl.ac.uk. I
>>>> don't
>>>> >think that it has gotten enough publicity on this
>>>> side
>>>> >of the water, though, so I'm blowing the bugle to
>>>> >consult it, if ADSers will pardon me.
>>>> >
>>>> >Michael
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >--- Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail
>>>> >> header -----------------------
>>>> >> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>> >> <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>> >> Poster: Laurence Horn
>>>> <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
>>>> >> Subject: Re: The earth v. Earth
>>>> (UNCLASSIFIED)
>>> > >>
>>>>
>>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> >>
>>>> >> At 10:28 AM -0500 8/8/07, Mullins, Bill AMRDEC
>>>> >> wrote:
>>>> >> >Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>>>> >> >Caveats: NONE
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >I've heard folks in the rural South referring
>>>> to
>>>> >> having "the cancer"
>>>> >> >instead of what seems to me to be standard
>>>> usage
>>>> >> "cancer".
>>>> >>
>>>> >> In the urban North it may not be "the cancer"
>>>> but
>>>> >> it's often "the big C".
>>>> >>
>>>> >> LH
>>>> >>
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >> -----Original Message-----
>>>> >> >> From: American Dialect Society
>>>> >> >> [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of
>>>> >> Doug Harris
>>>> >> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 9:08 AM
>>>> >> >> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>>> >> >> Subject: Re: The earth v. Earth
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> ---------------------- Information from the
>>>> mail
>>>> >> header
>>>> >> >> -----------------------
>>>> >> >> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>> >> <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>> >> >> Poster: Doug Harris
>>>> >> <cats22 at FRONTIERNET.NET>
>>>> >> >> Subject: Re: The earth v. Earth
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>>--------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> >> >> -----------------
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> On a _much_ smaller scale (but similarly
>>>> >> curious,
>>>> >> >> language-wise), is the British practice of
>>>> >> referring to
>>>> >> >> certain countries with the 'the' article
>>>> >> preceding their
>>>> >> >> name. To wit, The Gambia, The Lebanon.
>>>> >> >> I believe I know the historic logic for
>>>> this,
>>>> >> but there was a
>>>> >> >> similar logic for their use of the
>>>> 'aeroplane /
>>>> >> aeroport'
>>>> >> >> spellings, which The Sunday Telegraph (and
>>>> >> others) persisted
>>>> >> >> in using until at least the 1980's. Wisely,
>>>> >> though, albeit
>>>> >> >> with much kicking and screaming, I imagine,
>>>> the
>>>> >> latter paper
>>>> >> >> seems to have come 'round to using 'airport'
>>>> >> _except_ when
>>>> >> >> referring to the French versions of places
>>>> where
>>>> > > aero...
>>>> >> >> whoops, airplanes land.
>>>> >> >> (the other) doug
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> I'm pretty sure - though I wouldn't bet
>>>> money on
>>>> >> it - that,
>>>> >> >> back in the '40's and '50's - the earth was
>>>> >> referred to as
>>>> >> >> "_the_ earth." More recently, it seems to
>>>> me,
>>>> >> "the earth" has
>>>> >> >> been replaced by "Earth."
>>>> >> >> Here's an instance that's neither "the
>>>> earth"
>>>> >> nor "Earth." It
>>>> >> >> could be a simple typo, however.
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> -Wilson
>>>> >> >>
> >>> >> >>
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>>------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>> >> http://www.americandialect.org
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>>>> >> >Caveats: NONE
>>>> >> >
>>>> >>
>>>>
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> >>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>>
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>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>--
>>Dennis R. Preston
>>University Distinguished Professor
>>Department of English
>>15C Morrill Hall
>>Michigan State University
>>East Lansing, MI 48824
>>517-353-4736
>>preston at msu.edu
>>
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>>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
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>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
--
Dennis R. Preston
University Distinguished Professor
Department of English
15C Morrill Hall
Michigan State University
East Lansing, MI 48824
517-353-4736
preston at msu.edu
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The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
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