eggcorn: "profound" (profane) words

[Dennis Preston]

Paul,

I  have much more limited experience in the small islands off the
coast of Europe than you, but your observations match mine. On the
other hand, this greater use of taboo for solidarity/humor/endearment
and the lowering of "shock" value that seems to entail might apply
across the board in Great Britain and Ireland, not just to "cunt."
More than a few Brit academics of my acquaintance have been amazed at
the stunned look on the faces of their well-washed US students when
they let such goodies slip in seminars in our purer land.

dInIs

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>Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>Poster:       Paul Johnston <paul.johnston at WMICH.EDU>
>Subject:      Re: eggcorn: "profound" (profane) words
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>dInIs,
>Your perception certainly matches mine, and my students'.  What was a
>real shocker was where the C-word's place was in Scotland, England &
>Ireland.  There, it is profane, to be sure, but much milder than it
>is on this side of the pool--you can call a man one, and in fact,
>this is frequently done, more frequently than calling a woman one,
>where it still has much of its literal meaning.  But it is a
>very,very popular swear word over there, even used jocularly, as in
>"you spawny (lucky) c__".  Dudley Moore and Peter Cook, on one of
>their comedy albums as "Derek and Clive" (where they exhibited their
>bluest humor) even did a skit based around its common use.
>It can be used in its literal sense, and carries all the force it
>does here when it is.  But, as here, other terms (including "fanny")
>are most frequently used unless you are REALLY trying to be obscene.
>I don't know of any communities here that use the term like the Brits
>do, though I know there are other ethnic cultures where the cognate
>of the word has less obscenity force.
>
>Yours,
>Paul Johnston
>On Jul 31, 2007, at 6:58 PM, Dennis R. Preston wrote:
>
>>  ---------------------- Information from the mail header
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>>  Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>  Poster:       "Dennis R. Preston" <preston at MSU.EDU>
>>  Subject:      Re: eggcorn: "profound" (profane) words
>>  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  ---------
>>
>>  In a number of studies done in the 70s, "cunt" was always ranked the
>>  "dirtiest" word in English, by both men and women. Frank Anshen
>>  turned up some interesting ethnic differences in one of his studies,
>>  but the top spot never changed if I remember these studies correctly.
>>  When I ask big classes of UG students at Michigan State today, it's
>>  still on top (so to speak).
>>
>>  dInIs
>>
>>
>>
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>>>  Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>  Poster:       "David A. Daniel" <dad at POKERWIZ.COM>
>>>  Subject:      Re: eggcorn: "profound" (profane) words
>>>  ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>  ----------
>>>
>>>>  I've discussed this many times with various friends over the
>>>>  years and
>>>>  nearly every woman has said that, of the usual offensive words,
>>>>  "cunt" is
>>>>  the worst thing you can call a woman, especially from a man, I
>>>>  believe. If
>>>>  I
>>>>  remember right, "bitch" sounds worse coming from another woman.
>>>>  Of course,
>>>>  this is merely anecdotal.
>>>
>>>>  Scot
>>>
>>>  I ran into this over 20 (probably more like 25) years ago. A very,
>>>  very good
>>>  female friend, lots of banter, all cool. She said something - I don't
>>>  remember what - and I said, "Cunt!". Her eyes got wide, corners of
>>>  mouth
>>>  turned down, veins showing in the neck, teeth bared, major stress
>>>  evident
>>>  here. Then she seemed to get a grip - sort of - and simply said,
>>>  "WHAT did
>>>  you say?" rather than starting the WMD attack that had seemed
>  >> imminent. I
>>>  could see my good friend was upset and even through the alcohol-
>>>  induced fog
>>>  I was able to discern the reason. So I said, "Wait a minute. Why
>>>  is calling
>>>  you a cunt not the same as calling a guy a prick? I mean, it would
>>>  be kind
>>>  of silly for me to call you a prick." She dropped her gaze to the
>>>  lower
>>>  left, a posture of thoughtfulness, and said, "Oh. Hmmmmmm." And
>>>  things went
>>>  on from there very normally, as before. So I repeat the question
>>>  to the
>>>  world today, 25 years or so hence. She got it, but only after I had
>>>  encouraged her to think about it.
>>>
>>>  Now, here is something interesting (at least to me): Only in
>>>  fairly recent
>>>  years have Brits begun referring to one another regularly - on the
>>>  street,
>>>  so to speak - as "assholes" or, for the more linguistically
>>>  conservative,
>>>  "arseholes". There was a time, not long ago, when "asshole" was
>>>  considered a
>>>  total Americanism, and British men referred to one another, in
>>>  this context,
>>>  after a few pints down t'pub, as "cunts". This practice does
>>>  continue to
>>>  this day though it is losing ground to the Americanism. So, I
>>>  would be
>>>  extremely interested to know what American females would think -
>>>  in the name
>>>  of political correctness - of British males referring to each
>>>  other (male to
>>>  male) as "cunts". I was going to make this multiple choice but
>>>  there were
>>>  too many permutations to make it viable.
>>>  DAD
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>  --
>>  Dennis R. Preston
>>  University Distinguished Professor
>>  Department of English
>>  15C Morrill Hall
>>  Michigan State University
>>  East Lansing, MI 48824
>>  517-353-4736
>>  preston at msu.edu
>>
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>>  The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
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--
Dennis R. Preston
University Distinguished Professor
Department of English
Morrill Hall 15-C
Michigan State University
East Lansing, MI 48864 USA

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