P.E.P.? VIGOR?

[RonButters at AOL.COM]

In a message dated 8/10/07 6:55:37 PM, zwicky at CSLI.STANFORD.EDU writes:

> i didn't mention "pep clubs" -- only "pep squads" and "pep bands" --
> though they're still around too.   but my only point here is that
> people these days have access to a word "pep" 'vigor, enthusiasm',
> even if they don't use it themselves.
> 
> 
No disagreement here: of course people have access to the denotation of the 
word. I am simply hypothesizing that the connotations are somewhat stodgy for 
the noun "pep" used alone, hence not a very smart choice for the product.

In a message dated 8/10/07 6:55:37 PM, zwicky at CSLI.STANFORD.EDU writes:

> i'm not claiming that the
> spammers use "pep" as a selling point, as a way of attracting
> customers.  i'm only saying that they use the word as a way of
> describing the nature of the product they're selling, and that they
> do this as part of a complex (and constantly evolving) scheme of
> avoiding spam filters,
> 
>  
On the other hand, I'm suggesting that the spammers may have selected "pep" 
as a "selling point" because they don't understand English very well. Or just 
that they are stupid. It didn't occur to me that they thought that P.E.P. could 
have slipped through spam filters where "vigor" might not. Still seems rather 
unlikely to me.

In a message dated 8/10/07 6:55:37 PM, zwicky at CSLI.STANFORD.EDU writes:

> 
> it was only a suggestion.  and it's hard to test, because each
> bayesian filter evolves on its own, and there is absolutely no way to
> find out exactly what it does, or how it came to be that way.  but i
> was going on some experience with other instances of spam, and on
> reading some material on how spam and spam filters work.  you seem to
> be coming at the matter totally fresh, thinking of spam as just more
> advertising copy and applying your judgments to it accordingly, not
> realizing that it's a genre of its own, subject to constraints very
> different from everyday advertising.
> 
> 
I had a pretty good idea that spam had rules of its own--it is totally 
obvious that spammers try to avoid filters by a number of different means. I get 
lots of this stuff, and AOL dumps a lot in my spam folder, and a lot gets though 
that I take a look at from time to time. I just thought your sugestion in this 
particular case was not very realistic. As you note, it is not really an 
easily testable hypothesis, so I guess we just have to withhold judgment in this 
case unless we can get more evidence, if any is forthcoming.

My point was really just as much about how "pep" may be semiarchaic slang as 
about spam per say, though the fact that a lot of spam comes from foreign 
lands makes for what seem to me to be some interesting language-interface issues.


In a message dated 8/10/07 6:55:37 PM, zwicky at CSLI.STANFORD.EDU writes:

> my LLog piece is just a squib, but if you want to quarrel with it you
> should read it first.
> 
> 
I wasn't "quarreling" with your LLog post (which really does little more than 
summarize a NEW YORKER piece), I was disagreeing with your response to my 
ADS-L posting. Reading your LLog post (which doesn't really say anything that I 
haven't thought of myself, and which doesn't deal at all with the foreign 
origin of a lot of spam) doesn't change my view of your response to my posting.

In a message dated 8/10/07 6:55:37 PM, zwicky at CSLI.STANFORD.EDU writes:

> i suppose i should have reproduced my little posting here, rather
> than merely pointing you to it.  if that's what's required to make my
> points, i'll be happy to do that in a future ADS-L message.
> 
> 
It does seem rather an unusual requirement that one should have to click on a 
link to some Language Log posting in order to be deemed qualified respond to 
an ADS-L posting.

> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> 
> 




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