Very OT: Uncle Remus frightened me as a child Re: "Jazz Means Happy and Loose Like" (1917) (UNCLASSIFIED)
Dennis R. Preston
preston at MSU.EDU
Wed Dec 5 20:50:14 UTC 2007
THEY SO DIRT-POOR THEY CAIN'T RHYME!
dInIs
>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>-----------------------
>Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>Poster: "Mullins, Bill AMRDEC" <Bill.Mullins at US.ARMY.MIL>
>Subject: Re: Very OT: Uncle Remus frightened me as a child Re:
>"Jazz Means
> Happy and Loose Like" (1917) (UNCLASSIFIED)
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>Caveats: NONE
>
>The version I heard (which came from dirt-poor rural south Georgia) had
>as a punch line:
>
>"Tell Mr. BuzZARD and Mr. RabBIT
>That Mr. TurTELL is here with the SHIT"
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: American Dialect Society
>> [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Dennis Preston
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 5:33 AM
>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: Very OT: Uncle Remus frightened me as a child
>> Re: "Jazz Means Happy and Loose Like" (1917)
>>
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster: Dennis Preston <preston at MSU.EDU>
>> Subject: Re: Very OT: Uncle Remus frightened me as a
>> child Re: "Jazz Means
>> Happy and Loose Like" (1917)
>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>> -----------------
>>
>> Wilson,
>>
>> Stupid Northern chillun (and their stupider parents) don't
>> know that brer (or bre'r) means "brother." One English
>> Professor (sic!) splained to me that that was the spelling
>> for 'briar' ! (Member, Bre'r Rabbit lived in the briar
>> patch!) They some r-full folk in the world (and even better
>> folk-etymologizers).
>>
>> How the turtle got in:
>>
>> The three of 'em (rabbit, turtle, lizard) was buddies and
>> saved and bought a farm, but wouldn't nothin grow without an
>> exotic fertilizer.
>> Rabbit was chose to go off and get it (somewhere far away of
>> course). Lizard and turtle was trying to scrape somethin out
>> of the bad ground while he was gone but struck oil. After
>> they was rollin in dough and put up their mansion, rabbit
>> come back with a little bag of shit and, piuzzled, went up to
>> the door and asked for his ol buiddies. The word final stress
>> on turTELL and liZARD represent the snootiness of the butler,
>> and help make the punch line (rabBIT) funnier.
>>
>> Naturally, the telling of it takes much longer than this
>> quick summary, but that's where the turtle came from in the
>> Louisville version.
>>
>> dInIs
>>
>>
>> >---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> >-----------------------
>> >Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> >Poster: Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
>> >Subject: Re: Very OT: Uncle Remus frightened me as a child Re:
>> >"Jazz Means
>> > Happy and Loose Like" (1917)
>> >-------------------------------------------------------------
>> ----------
>> >--------
>> >
>> >"*Remusian* 'Bruh'"? I thought that the "Remusian" stories
>> used "Brer."
>> >I heard the story from my mother about sixty-five years ago and she
>> >used [br@] and not [brei@(r)], which is the only pronunciation I've
>> >ever heard used among blacks for the spelling, "brer." Either her
>> >memory is wrong or my memory is wrong or the versions are simply
>> >different. Like, how does the turtle get into the story? And, of
>> >course, things do change with the passage of time.
>> >
>> >I've just heard "do you _a_ solid" used on the tube for the
>> umpteenth
>> >time. Yet, I've known the expression as "do you _some_
>> solid" for the
>> >past sixty or so years. I wonder how "a solid" is negated. To negate
>> >"some solid," I say, "I can't do you no solid," which
> > probably takes no
>> >one by surprise.
>> >
>> >So, is "err" pronounced [^r] or [ei at r]?
>> >
>> >-Wilson
> > >
>> >On Dec 4, 2007 7:48 PM, Jonathan Lighter
>> <wuxxmupp2000 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> >>-----------------------
>> >> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> >> Poster: Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at YAHOO.COM>
>> >> Subject: Re: Very OT: Uncle Remus frightened me as a child
>> >>Re: "Jazz Means
>> >> Happy and Loose Like" (1917)
>> >>
>> >>------------------------------------------------------------
>> ----------
>> >>---------
>> >>
>> >> The version I heard in the '70s also included "Mr.
>> TurTOOL is out by
>> >>the pool." I don't recall the Remusian "Bruh" honorifics, however.
>> >>
>> >> JL
>> >>
>> >> Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> >>-----------------------
>> >> Sender: American Dialect Society
>> >> Poster: Wilson Gray
>> >> Subject: Re: Very OT: Uncle Remus frightened me as a
>> child Re: "Jazz
>> >>Means
>> >> Happy and Loose Like" (1917)
>> >>
>> >>------------------------------------------------------------
>> ----------
>> >>---------
>> >>
>> >> When I was a child, somebody gave me a copy of the book for
>> >> Christmas, but I wasn't able to make any sense out of it,
>> even with
>> >> the aid of the accompanying illustrations and nobody in my family
>> >> was able to read it to me. Nineteenth-century Black English
>> >> eye-dialect wasn't taught in school. Nowadays, I know
>> that "brer" doesn't spell "brayer"
>> >> and that "sezee" doesn't spell "see zee."
>> >>
>> >> Here followeth the only tale of anything at all like
>> those of the
>> >> Uncle Remus school that I've ever heard. It dates from around the
>> >> time of my mother's childhood, AFAIK. Ca.1910? Earlier? Later?
>> > >
>> >> Bruh Rabbit and Bruh Buzzard were partners in a business
>> cleaning
>> >> outhouses. After a day's work, Bruh Rabbit went by Bruh Buzzard's
>> >> mansion. Bruh Rabbit rang the doorbell. The butler
>> answered the door
>> >> and asked,
>> >>
>> >> But: Yes, sir? May I help you?
>> >> Rab: Bruh Buzzud tuh home?
>> >> But: Yes, sir. Mister BuzZARD is out in the yard.
>> >> Rab: "No lie? Well, tell 'im that Bruthuh RabBIT is heanh
>> wit duh shit."
>> >>
>> >> -Wilson
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Dec 4, 2007 9:47 AM, Amy West wrote:
>> >> > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> >>-----------------------
>> >> > Sender: American Dialect Society
>> >> > Poster: Amy West
>> >> > Subject: Very OT: Uncle Remus frightened me as a child
>> Re: "Jazz
>> >>Means
>> >> > Happy and Loose Like" (1917)
>> >> >
>> >>------------------------------------------------------------
>> ----------
>> >>---------
>> >> >
>> >> > A personal anecdote:
>> >> >
>> >> > I never read the Uncle Remus stories as a child. I have
>> a distinct
>> >> > memory of pulling it off the shelf of the branch library in
>> >> > Tonawonda, NY, opening it, and not recognizing it as any type of
>> >> > English I was familiar with -- and I was used to
>> foreign languages
>> >> > with my dad doing German and Russian translations --
>> nor the type
>> >>of
>> >> > English that my (white) Southern relations spoke. And it scared
>> >>the
>> >> > bejeesus out of me. I put that thing back on the shelf and never
>> >> > touched it again.
>> >> >
>> >> > ---Amy West
>> >> >
>> >> > >Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 16:01:56 -0500
>> >> > >From: "Baker, John"
>> >> > >Subject: Re: "Jazz Means Happy and Loose Like" (1917)
>> >> > >
>> >> > > "Rastus" seems to have been popularized by Brer Rastus, the
>> >> > >deacon of a colored church, in the story "Uncle Remus's Church
>> >> > >Experience," collected in Joel Chandler Harris, Uncle
>> Remus, His
>> >>Songs
>> >> > >and His Sayings: The Folk-Lore of the Old Plantation 190 - 93
>> >>(1881;
>> >> > >copyright 1880) (Google Books full text). But Harris does not
>> >>seem to
>> >> > >have invented the use. Here's an earlier, passing example:
>> >> > >
>> >> > > "While Brudder 'Rastus Putts passes round de hat, de
> > >> > >congregashun will please sing de useal Ducksholiday to de same
> > >>good ole
>> >> > >tune."
>> >> > >
>> >> > >Professor Julius Caesar Hannibal [probably a pseudonym], Black
>> >>Diamonds;
>> >> > >or, Humor, Satire and Sentiment, Treated
>> Scientifically 15 (1857;
>> >> > >copyright 1855) (Google Books full text).
>> >> > >
>> >> > >John Baker
>> >> >
>> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange
>> complaint
>> >> to come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>> >> -----
>> >> -Sam'l Clemens
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ---------------------------------
>> >> Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside
>> Yahoo! Mail. See how.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >--
>> >All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange
>> complaint to
>> >come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>> >-----
>> > -Sam'l Clemens
>> >
>> >------------------------------------------------------------
>> >The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dennis R. Preston
>> University Distinguished Professor
>> Department of English
>> Morrill Hall 15-C
>> Michigan State University
>> East Lansing, MI 48864 USA
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>Caveats: NONE
>
>------------------------------------------------------------
>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
--
It should be the chief aim of a university professor to exhibit
himself [sic] in his own true character - that is, as an ignorant man
thinking, actively utilizing his small share of knowledge. Alfred
North Whitehead
Dennis R. Preston
University Distinguished Professor
Department of English
Morrill Hall 15-C
Michigan State University
East Lansing, MI 48824-1036 USA
Office: (517) 353-4736
Fax: (517) 353-3755
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