Help Needed Please

Thu Feb 22 10:29:59 UTC 2007

"one-upmanship" en contraire!

ofense again

I'm convinced qualified sources such as literature on the subject is helpful, if not, never mind

Elfi

-------- Original-Nachricht --------
Datum: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 04:34:56 +0000
Von: Tom Zurinskas <truespel at HOTMAIL.COM>
An: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
CC:
Betreff: Re: Help Needed Please

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Tom Zurinskas <truespel at HOTMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: Help Needed Please
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> No offense taken Jamie.  You're in a forum where plenty of offense is
> given.
>
> I just saw Boston Legal, where a lawyer said that lawyering is a dirty
> business and he's a good lawyer.  Then he berated his opponent, a friend,
> as
> one with a psychological problems and not worth to oppose him, sending his
> friend back into regression just to get an edge in the case.
>
> Using big words shows certain intelligence and certainly is a power
> tactic.
> I see it in this forum all the time.  And if you ask a question around
> here,
> some folks that otherwise could answer it feel smugly superior in telling
> you where to look it up, interesting one-upmanship.
>
> Of interest is that there is a movement against "legaleze" and for
> simplified text in government documents.  It's amazing how complex phrases
> can be simply expressed.
>
> Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL4+
> See truespel.com and the 4 truespel books at authorhouse.com.
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: Jamie Landers <jme1283 at GMAIL.COM>
> >Reply-To: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >Subject: Re: Help Needed Please
> >Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 20:16:00 -0500
> >
> >---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >-----------------------
> >Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >Poster:       Jamie Landers <jme1283 at GMAIL.COM>
> >Subject:      Re: Help Needed Please
> >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >John,
> >
> >I apologize if I offended you in any way.  Maybe I did not explain myself
> >very clearly.  The project that I am undertaking is not only partial to
> >attorneys, but my professor suggested that we focus on one profession and
> >she believed that Law would be one profession that would have an abundant
> >amount of information.
> >
> >Brenda Lester said this about my project:
> >"Legal terms become somewhat of an elitist barrier, not because of how
> much
> >money the attorney makes, but because he or she can define certain terms,
> >can speak a special language, and make the language work for the client."
> >
> >This sums up what my group is trying to accomplish; however, spoken more
> >eloquently.  I apologize again if you feel that my group was trying to
> >degrade those who study law.  We understand that Lawyers, along with many
> >other social groups, use jargon; however, my professor recommended that
> we
> >narrow our project down to one profession and she suggested the field of
> >law
> >saying that she was sure that it would have lots of information.
> >
> >I appreciate your time to respond to my email and I apologize for any
> >misinterpretations.
> >
> >Jamie
> >
> >On 2/21/07, Baker, John <JMB at stradley.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> > > -----------------------
> > > Sender:       American Dialect Society < ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> > > Poster:       "Baker, John" < JMB at STRADLEY.COM>
> > > Subject:      Re: Help Needed Please
> > >
> >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > >        I question the premises of your project.  First, it's far from
> > > clear to me, as a lawyer, that I have an elevated status in society.
> > > The case could as well be made that lawyers as a group are
> particularly
> > > disdained.  I certainly don't know of any other profession that is the
> > > brunt of so many jokes.  To the extent that individual lawyers have
> > > status, it's arguably from their education and income, rather than
> > > because they are lawyers.
> > >
> > >        Second, if there is an unequal power relationship (and there
> > > is), it favors the client (which is what I assume you mean by
> "Patron"),
> > > and not the lawyer.  I've worked all night many times for clients, but
> I
> > > can't think of a single client who has ever done that for me.  The
> power
> > > relationship may favor the lawyer on some occasions, such as pro bono
> > > representation of criminal defendants or contingency fee
> representation
> > > of individual tort plaintiffs.  These power relationships have nothing
> > > to do with how the lawyer talks and a great deal to do with the
> lawyer's
> > > fees.
> > >
> > >        Third, it's contrary to my experience that lawyers use jargon
> to
> > > maintain elevated status either in general or in their relationships
> > > with their clients.  To the extent that the lawyer's speech is used to
> > > gain status, it's because of the substantive information contained,
> not
> > > the wording used.  For example, the lawyer might say "You can't do
> that,
> > > that would violate Rule 10b-5."  It doesn't matter whether the lawyer
> > > calls it Rule 10b-5, or the antifraud rule, or some other name.  It's
> > > the information being conveyed that gives the status.
> > >
> > >        Lawyers do use jargon, of course.  Every group needs jargon in
> > > order to convey concepts that are of particular interest to that
> group.
> > > But I would argue that jargon is primarily for in-group use.
> > >
> > >
> > > John Baker
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU ] On
> >Behalf
> > > Of Jamie Landers
> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 5:03 PM
> > > To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> > > Subject: Help Needed Please
> > >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > My name is Jamie Landers and I am a senior at Kennesaw State
> University
> > > in Georgia.  I have a project to due that I am hoping someone can help
> > > me with.  The project is for my Linguistics class and it is over
> unequal
> > > power relationships.  My group is focusing on Lawyer/Patron
> > > relationships and mainly how Lawyers use jargon in order to maintain
> > > their elevated status in society.  If anyone can help me out, or has
> > > research that may prove beneficial, please email me back at
> > > jme1283 at gmail.com.  Thank you so much!
> > >
> > > I appreciate all your help in this matter!
> > >
> > > Yours truly,
> > >
> > > Jamie Landers
> > > Student
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > >
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------
> >The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
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