Just wondering

Tue Jan 2 22:48:46 UTC 2007

No he-man in NYC would ever admit to carrying a "purse" under any circumstances, regardless of definition.  You had a "billfold" or a "wallet."  Cf.:

"Sarge, I'm only 18,
I got a ruptured spleen,
And I always carry a purse.
I got eyes like a bat,
My feet are flat,
And my asthma's getting worse."

                                    --Phil Ochs, "Draft Dodger Rag" (1964).

  JL

"Dennis R. Preston" <preston at MSU.EDU> wrote:
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Sender: American Dialect Society
Poster: "Dennis R. Preston"

Subject: Re: Just wondering
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My oldest relatives from Western KY and Southern IL always had
'handbag' or 'pocketbook' for what women carried and 'purse' for what
I now call a billfold (whether carried in a man's pocket or a woman's
handbag/pocketbook). The unmarked form for them, however, was purse
=- man's wallet

dInIs, remembering when he noticed at a very young age that
pocketbooks were not carried in pockets - stupid language!

>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>-----------------------
>Sender: American Dialect Society
>Poster: Wilson Gray
>Subject: Re: Just wondering
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>As fate would have it, I'm quite familiar with the use of "(hand)bag"
>in place of "purse" and / or "pocketbook." Had I been more alert, I
>would have included all three terms in my question.
>
>-Wilson
>
>On 1/2/07, Lynne Murphy wrote:
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>-----------------------
>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>> Poster: Lynne Murphy
>> Subject: Re: Just wondering
>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> I discussed BrE and AmE sense of 'purse' and '(hand)bag' (and someone
>> brings up 'pocketbook' on my blog in Sept.(Self-promotion is an ugly
>> thing.) Since then my 12-year-old goddaughter and her mother have informed
>> me that 'only old ladies say 'purse', we say 'bag'). They live in the
>> Rochester, NY area. They're also prone to unsubstantiatable claims about
>> their own language usage and I heard my cousin from Indiana call her bag a
>> 'purse' today, but I mention their claim anyway...
>>
>> Lynne
>>
>> --On Monday, January 1, 2007 1:22 pm -0600 Victoria Neufeldt
>> wrote:
>>
>> > I lived in the U.S. for about 16 years (1984-2000), in Cleveland and in
>> > Springfield, MA; I remember being struck by the use of _pocketbook_ for
>> > what I would call a handbag or purse. In my experience in the U.S.,
>> > _pocketbook_ and _purse_ were synonymous. _Pocketbook_ (an Americanism
>> > in this usage) seemed the standard term, far more common than _purse_. I
>> > don't recall a distinction in usage based on age (i.e., I wasn't aware
>> > that _pocketbook_ was considered old-fashioned). I think of _purse_ as
>> > being somewhat old-fashioned in Canada (haven't done any research on this
>> > though); my own general term is _handbag_ and that's probably the more
>> > common term in Canada as a whole. _Pocketbook_ for me is restricted to
>> > its extended meaning of financial resources. I agree with Wilson that
>> > _purse_ means _handbag_; if I want to refer to a small container for
>> > money, etc. that you carry in your pocket or purse/handbag, I would say
> > > _change purse_, never just _purse_.
> > >
> > > Victoria
> > >
> > > Victoria Neufeldt
> > > Editor, DSNA Newsletter
> > > 727 9th Street East
> > > Saskatoon, Sask.
> > > S7H 0M6
> > > Canada
> > > Tel: (306) 955-8910
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Wilson Gray"
>> > To:
>> > Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 8:00 PM
>> > Subject: Re: Just wondering
>> >
>> >
>> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail
>> > header -----------------------
>> >> Sender: American Dialect Society
>> >> Poster: Wilson Gray
>> >> Subject: Re: Just wondering
>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> --
>> > -----
>> >>
>> >> FWIW,my wife, who's from Wilkes-Barre, speaking of Pennsylavania.
>> >> doesn't recognize any distinction between "purse" and "pocketbook."
>> >>
>> >> Also, FWIW, I don't consider what I call a "change purse" to be a
>> >> purse in the sense meant here. If my wife asked me to get her purse,
>> >> it would never occur to me to look inside her pocketbook for her
> > >> change purse.
>> >>
>> >> IAC, I'd say that it's clear that, for some people, "pocketbook" and
>> >> "purse" name distinct objects and cannot be interchanged. Whew! That's
>> >> a load off my mind! ;-)
>> >>
>> >> -Wilson
>> >>
>> >> On 12/29/06, GSCole wrote:
>> >> > ---------------------- Information from the mail
>> > header -----------------------
>> >> > Sender: American Dialect Society
>> >> > Poster: GSCole
>> >> > Subject: Re: Just wondering
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> --
>> > -----
>> >> >
>> >> > In my mind, a purse is smaller than a pocketbook; a purse may be
>> >> > carried inside of a pocketbook. A coin purse is the smallest purse of
>> >> > which I'm aware; small enough to be carried in a trouser side pocket.
>> >> >
>> >> > George Cole
>> >> > Shippensburg University
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > -----Original Message-----
>> >> > From: American Dialect Society on behalf of Brenda Lester
>> >> > Sent: Fri 29-Dec-06 17:19
>> >> > Subject: Re: [ADS-L] Just wondering
>> >> >
>> >> > 2) "Pocketbook" and "purse" are interchangeable.
>> >> > I've always considered a purse to be smaller than a pocketbook. A
>> >> > pocketbook has all your work-a-day junk in it; a purse is for a few
>> >> > necessary items.
>> >> >
>> >> > Wilson Gray wrote:
>> >> > 2) Is there anyone for whom the words "pocketbook" and "purse" denote
>> >> > different objects? Not "can" or 'could," but _do_.
>> >> >
>> >> > -Wilson
>> >> > ---------------------------------------------------
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>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
>> >> come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>> >> -----
>> >> -Sam'l Clemens
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> >>
>>
>>
>>
>> Dr M Lynne Murphy
>> Senior Lecturer and Head of Department
>> Linguistics and English Language
>> Arts B135
>> University of Sussex
>> Brighton BN1 9QN
>>
>> phone: +44-(0)1273-678844
>> http://separatedbyacommonlanguage.blogspot.com
>>
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>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>
>
>--
>All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
>come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>-----
>-Sam'l Clemens
>
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>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

--
It should be the chief aim of a university professor to exhibit
himself in his own true character - that is, as an ignorant man [sic]
thinking, actively utilizing his small share of knowledge. - Alfred
North Whitehead

There are many different religions in this world, but if you look at
them carefully, you'll see that they all have one thing in common:
They were invented by a giant, superintelligent slug named Dennis. -
Homer Simpson

Dennis R. Preston
University Distinguished Professor
Department of English
15-C Morrill Hall
Michigan State University
East Lansing, MI 48824-1036
Phone: (517) 353-4736
Fax: (517) 353-3755
preston at msu.edu

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