forty-eleven

[Wilson Gray]

I know what you mean, Scot. I feel the same way about
"eleventy-eleven." Have I really heard this? Or did I read it
somewhere? Or did I unconsciously conjure it up, inspired by the
subject of the thread?

-Wilson

On 1/18/07, Scot LaFaive <spiderrmonkey at hotmail.com> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Scot LaFaive <spiderrmonkey at HOTMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: forty-eleven
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Speaking of eleven, has anyone ever heard eleventeen as a variant? I could
> swear that I remember hearing this when I was around that age (mid-1980's),
> though I can't be sure I wasn't just creating it myself, or that my memory
> is misfiring.
> Scot
>
>
> >From: sagehen <sagehen at WESTELCOM.COM>
> >Reply-To: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >Subject: Re: forty-eleven
> >Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 17:21:39 -0500
> >
> >---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >-----------------------
> >Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >Poster:       sagehen <sagehen at WESTELCOM.COM>
> >Subject:      Re: forty-eleven
> >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > >        "Forty-eleven" is an impossible number, therefore an impossibly
> >big
> > >number.  It seems to me that I first encountered the expression in a
> > >blues song, very many years ago; in any event, I have had the notion
> > >that it was an expression used by black people.  Which indeed it seems
> > >to be, but the second item below is from a story by no doubt a white
> > >author, and the character who speaks is no doubt white.
> > >        I don't see it in tbe OED or HDAS; didn't check DARE.
> > >        It has a long history, since my first cite is from the 1830s and
> >my
> > >last, a variant, from a play written in the 1980s or 90s, though set in
> > >the 1960s.
> > >
> > >        [Cornelia Latting, a young colored woman, sentenced to 2 years, 6
> > >months; she tells the court] that she did not care a d--n if they had
> > >sent her up for forty-eleven years.
> > >        New York Transcript, February 15, 1836, p. 2, col. 4
> > >
> > >        I never go into one [a toy store] without wishiní it was
> >Christmas
> > >once
> > >a week, and I had forty-eleven children to buy toys for.
> > >        S. Annie Frost, ìThe Daffodils Prepare fot a Fancy Fair,î Godeyís
> > >Ladyís Book, July, 1866, p. 52, col. 2  (Proquest's Amer Periodicals)
> > >
> > >        [He will] go back to London and join the forty eleven colored
> >actors
> > >who are now located and settled down in amalgamation row never to return
> > >to America.
> > >        Chicago Defender, June 17, 1911, p. 1, col. ?  (Proquest's
> >Chicago
> > >Defender)
> > >
> > >        Well, I don't even care/ If my baby leaves me flat/ I got forty
> >'leven
> > >others/ If it comes to that.
> > >        Josh White, "Evil-hearted Me", in The Josh White Song Book,
> >Chicago:
> > >Quadrangle books, 1963, p. 51.  White says he learned the song from
> > >Blind Blake, who was recording in the 1920s.  "Forty-eleven" doesn't
> > >appear in Michael Taft's Blues Concordance (http://dylan61.se/taft.htm)
> > >nor does he include "Evil-hearted Me".  It appears that White recorded
> > >it in 1944.
> > >
> > >        They was out there pouring whiskey on the grave... had two
> >five-gallon
> > >buckets full of dice and fifty-eleven decks of cards they dumped in the
> > >grave with him.
> > >        August Wilson, Two Trains Running.  Act 2, scene 2.  I saw a
> > >performance o this play a few weeks ago, and caught this expression on
> > >the fly.  I quote it here from the recent database of Afro-American
> > >plays, the title of which I forget.
> > >        The second and third items above I found by searching Proquest's
> > >Historical Newspapers for "forty-eleven".  Until I heard Wilson's play I
> > >hadn't realized that there were variant formulas and I haven't searched
> > >for other base numbers.
> > >
> > >GAT
> >  ~~~~~~~~~
> >My mother-in-law (white, b. 1902, childhood & youth spent in Washington  &
> >Alaska) used this word, but her version was "forty-leven."   I'd guess that
> >she picked it up in Alaska, but  since the population there came from
> >everywhere that doesn't help much!
> >AM
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------
> >The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Type your favorite song.  Get a customized station.  Try MSN Radio powered
> by Pandora. http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>


--
All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
-----
-Sam'l Clemens

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org