FW: eighty-six or 86; short-order cookery language

[Dave Wilton]

The ESB explanation is in "An Uplifting Origin of 86," in the Winter 2001,
Vol. 76, No. 4 issue. The article is by the late folklorist Alan Dundes.

I remember upon reading this when I received the issue back in 2001 of being
surprised with the conclusion of the article which indicates the ESB
explanation is perhaps the correct one.

The article's only substantiating evidence for the explanation is the
recollection of a single person, now living in Los Angeles, who "had always
heard" (Dundes' words) that the phrase came from the fact that all elevator
passengers had to exit on the 86th floor before taking a different elevator
to the higher floors. At most the article should have concluded that this
explanation was another possibility that deserved investigation.

The "had always heard" is a dead giveaway for an urban legend. I'm really
surprised this one got by Dundes, who as a folklorist should have known
better. Perhaps Dundes fell victim to the occupational hazard of confusing
the folklore with the underlying fact.


-----Original Message-----
From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of
Benjamin Zimmer
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 12:02 PM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: FW: eighty-six or 86; short-order cookery language

On 7/1/07, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu> wrote:
>
> At 9:35 AM -0500 7/1/07, Cohen, Gerald Leonard wrote:
> >I'm presently away from my reference books, but IIRC there's an
> >explanation given in an American Speech article which derives this
> >86 from the number of stories in the Empire State building. I know
> >the number of stories is now considered to be 102, but somehow it
> >was once considered to be 86. (Maybe the very top of the building
> >has something to do with the discrepancy.)
>
> The open observation deck was on the 86th floor (still is, for all I
> know), so effectively that was the top for purposes of viewing the
> city at one's leisure, for looking through those binocular machines
> that one put a nickel into (or was it a dime?  memory fails), and
> from which one pondered whether it was really possible to kill
> someone by dropping a penny on their head.  (Young whippersnappers we
> were.)  We all knew there were 102 stories, but the 86th floor was
> the relevant top for most purposes.
>
> I have no idea whether this relates at all to the restaurant code.

I concur with Barry on this point. If "86" had an ESB origin, then
surely Walter Winchell would have mentioned it in 1933.

http://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/new_york_city/entry/86_not_from_chumleys
_or_empire_state_building/


--Ben Zimmer

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org