"until" vs "before" or "to"

[Beverly Flanigan]

At 10:46 PM 7/16/2007, you wrote:
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>Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>Poster:       sagehen <sagehen at WESTELCOM.COM>
>Subject:      Re: "until" vs "before" or "to"
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> >Did the announcer say "until" or "till"?  "Till" is more common, and the
> >standard term in the Midland (and South, I believe).  It goes way back,
> >noted in early travel journals as of Scotch-Irish origin.  Dictionaries
> >cite it as a separate lexical item, if I'm not mistaken, more related to
> >"to" than to "until."  (I don't have my sources here at home, but I've
> >cited this in my Encyclopedia of Appalachia entry of 2006, and Michael
> >Montgomery has discussed it long before that.)  As a common daily usage, it
> >goes deep: I always tell my students that I, a Northerner born and bred,
> >will always say "quarter to," but my Indiana/Ohio son will forever say
> >"quarter till."  The third option is usually "quarter of"; I've never heard
> >"quarter before" (or 15 minutes before).  This seems to me simply
> >dialectal, not semantic.  I forget where you live, Sage Hen?
> >
> >Beverly Flanigan
> >Ohio University
> >
> >At 08:02 PM 7/16/2007, you wrote:
> >>---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >>-----------------------
> >>Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >>Poster:       sagehen <sagehen at WESTELCOM.COM>
> >>Subject:      "until" vs "before" or "to"
> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------
> >>-
> >>
> >>(a) It is now 25 minutes until 6.
> >>(b) It is now 25  minutes before 6.
> >>(c) It is now 25 minutes to 6.
> >>   ~~~~~~~~~~~
> >>What's the difference?
> >>
> >>  (a) feels wrong to me, unless sthg important is going to happen at 6.
> >>
> >>  (b) & (c) as simple announcements of the time seem right.
> >>
> >>Is this just me, or do others have the same sense?  I would probably never
> >>have thought of this  if one of our local radio announcers didn't use the
> >>"until" form regularly,  catching my attention.  Most of them say "before."
> >>AM
>  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>This particular announcer definitely says "until."  The station is in
>Canton NY, but  its personnel come from all over the country.
>I myself would be more likely to say "25 of 6" or "quarter of"  than "
>till" or "to" or "before."  I grew up in Lincoln NE.
>AM
>
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Sounds like Broadcast Speak--a hypercorrection of "till" probably intended
to please all.

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