"This pudding has no theme" (Winston Churchill?)

Wed Jul 18 14:53:43 UTC 2007

At 9:31 AM -0400 7/18/07, Lynne Murphy wrote:
>Is the 'tain' in this quotation a cut-off 'certain'?
>
>There's no reason to think this would be plum pudding (certainly not the
>most common of British puddings, just the one that Americans know from
>Christmas songs or something), especially since a plum pudding would have a
>plum theme.  Pudding just means 'dessert' (well it can also mean a 'true
>pudding', such as sticky toffee pudding or but that's a sub-type and not
>the usual use of the word).  If his pudding had no theme (and if this is a
>literal description of an eating situation), then I'd bet that he was
>refusing to eat a pudding that wasn't based on one of the classic pudding
>recipes.
>
>Lynne

Wouldn't the classic (English) pudding have been not a sweet but a
savory?  There is, for example, blood pudding and such.  The earliest
OED cites (back to 1305) involve this meaning ('The stomach or one of
the entrails of a pig, sheep, or other animal, stuffed with a mixture
of minced meat, suet, oatmeal, seasoning, etc., boiled and kept till
needed; a kind of sausage: for different varieties, see BLACK, HOG'S,
WHITE PUDDING. Now chiefly Sc. and dial.') and that's what was
borrowed into French as "boudin".  The sweet ones came along later,
and I'd think at the time the proof of the pudding was determined to
be in the eating (1682 according to the OED, sense 6d), the savory
pudding was still dominant.  As for when the pudding had no theme,
perhaps the sweet puddings would come first to mind. (And there's
been a widening in British usage to end-of-the-meal sweets regardless
of manner of preparation or ingredients; very puzzling at first to
visitors from this side of the pond.)

(There's also a cute "coarse slang" sense, 5b, with reference to a
certain body-part--

1719 T. D'URFEY Wit & Mirth III. 73, I made a request to prepare
again, That I might continue in Love with the strain Of his Pudding.

I can imagine a motivated reanalysis of "the proof is in the
pudding", or possibly even the later variant, inspired thereby...)

LH

>--On Tuesday, July 17, 2007 12:23 am -0400 Bapopik at AOL.COM wrote:
>
>>PUDDING HAS NO THEME--142 Google hits
>>...
>>My Yale Book of Quotations is packed. What does anyone have on this
>>famous   food quote? Was it said about plum pudding?
>>...
>>...
>>...
>>_http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/15/books/review/Blount-t.html?pagewanted=
>>2&_r= 1&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1184645345-VlNIXAZy9FQJB41Jku7ZsA_
>>(http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/15/books/review/Blount-t.html?pagewanted=
>>2&_r=1&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=11846 45345-VlNIXAZy9FQJB41Jku7ZsA)
>>
>>For more of such perspective, see the introduction, which is sound and
>>lively. _Winston Churchill_
>>(http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/c/winston_leo
>>nard_spencer_churchill/index.html?inline=nyt-per)  would  have been wrong
>>to find fault  with this anthology, as he is supposed to have  done with
>>an overelaborate  dessert, by saying, ?This pudding has no theme.? ...
>>...
>>(NEWSPAPERARCHIVE)
>>Lima News,  The
>>Winston Churchill so it is  said once refused to eat a tain pudding
>>because  it lacked a theme  Denis Healy's latest Paper is indigestible
>>for much the same  reason The authors  of this document have in fact
>>responded in the way  officials always do when de-  of overall direction
>>They have sunk into triviality  The British must have been  copying some
>>of our top cians speeches or some of  their White of which they  issue
>>quite a few But no matter how far old England  sinks int
>>_Monday,  March 13, 1967_
>>(http://www.newspaperarchive.com/Search.aspx?Search=pudding+theme+Winston
>>+churchill+AND+date:1967-03-13)  _Lima_
>>(http://www.newspaperarchive.com/Search.aspx?Search=pudding+theme+Winston
>>+churchill+AND+cityid: 16362+AND+stateid:73) ,  _Ohio_
>>(http://www.newspaperarchive.com/Search.aspx?Search=pudding+theme+Winston
>>+churchill+AND+stateid:73)   ...
>>...
>>Anniston Star,  The
>>Pudding Gets A Theme By  PHILADELPHIA There is an o I d story about Sir
>>Winslon Churchill being served a  more than usually con- glomerate
>>English dessert  at the end of a moderately  bibulous public He tasted it
>>experimentally and  turned at once to the waiter  hovering behind hb
>>chair he said a bil imperiously  remove this pudding I do not  wish to
>>eat this pudding This pudding has no  Until very recently at any rate
>>there has been a strong resemblance between the  pudding the great old ma
>>_Sunday,  November 03, 1968_
>>(http://www.newspaperarchive.com/Search.aspx?Search="pudding+has+no+theme
>>"+AND+date:1968-11-03)  _Anniston_
>>(http://www.newspaperarchive.com/Search.aspx?Search="pudding+has+no+theme
>>"+AND+cityid:744+AND+sta teid:2) ,  _Alabama_
>>(http://www.newspaperarchive.com/Search.aspx?Search="pudding+has+no+theme
>>"+AND+stateid:2)   ...
>>...
>>Bennington  Banner
>>pudding with a you may not even  like it By ELLEN CRONAN ROSE BRATTLEBORO
>>A  RECENT James Reston column was  enlivened by an anecdote about Winston
>>chill  and a bad dessert At a  political luncheon at London's posh Savoy
>>Hotel Sir  Winston was served a  dessert which Harold who recorded the
>>story for posterity  described as a rather  equivocal and shapeless mass
>>of goo Sir Winston glared at  his dish then  summoned the waiter Pray
>>take away this he said It has no  theme
>>_Friday,  October 16, 1970_
>>(http://www.newspaperarchive.com/Search.aspx?Search=pudding+theme+Winston
>>+churchill+AND+date:1970-10-16)  _Bennington_
>>(http://www.newspaperarchive.com/Search.aspx?Search=pudding+theme+Winston
>>+churchill+AND +cityid:2163+AND+stateid:98) ,  _Vermont_
>>(http://www.newspaperarchive.com/Search.aspx?Search=pudding+theme+Winston
>>+churchill+AND+stateid:98)
>>
>>
>>
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