Interpreting 1912 and 1920 "big apple"

[Cohen, Gerald Leonard]

   Two ads-l items recently submitted by Barry Popik help clarify an important aspect of pre-1921 "the big apple," viz. that it could mean (slang) "big shot"/"someone or something very important," and Edward Martin's 1909 "the big apple" fits into this picture.  The 1912 "big apple" is quite clear in this regard, while the 1920 one is less so.

     Still, that 1920 "big apple" should be viewed in light of the 1912 "big apple" in Siringo's book.  Siringo 1912 clearly implies that both he and President T. Roosevelt's audience were very familiar with "big apple" (important person). Also, "big apple" = "(overweening) big shot" is precisely the meaning (so I believe) that appears in Edward's Martin's 1909  _The Wayfarer in New York_ ("It [the Midwest] tends to think that the big apple [G. Cohen: here happens to refer to NYC] gets a disproportionate share of the national sap."]. And the meaning "big shot" for "big apple" is specifically given in the 1950 _Dictionary of American Underworld Lingo_ by Goldin et al.

    So when approaching the 1920 "big apple" attestation we must bear in mind that for speakers of that time the term had two meanings: 1) literally, an apple that's big, and 2) slang "big shot."  And speakers could make use of both meanings in the same sentence, just as modern speakers could, if they wish, say something like: "The Big Apple is rotten to the core."

    So in the 1920 "big apple" statement, the writer has in mind the world (a very important place), which has a nagging problem.  And since the world is described as a "big apple," the nagging problem is described as "the decayed spot."

 Gerald Cohen


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From: American Dialect Society on behalf of Bapopik at AOL.COM
Sent: Fri 7/20/2007 10:17 AM
To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: "This big apple we call the world" (1920, from Kansas)



For what it's worth.
...
...
11 July 1920, Grand Forks (ND) Herald, pg. 4.
_Wants Turkey Abolished._
...
_Kansas Editor Vigorously Seconds Senator King's Motion._
...
Senator King is a Democrat, and he comes from Utah, but he has one of the best suggestions yet offered in the United States Senate. It is to abolish the Turkish government, "which has neither right nor reason to exist." No truer statement was ever offered in fewer words. It has been the decayed spot in this big apple we call the world for many centuries.
(...)
--Topeka Capitol.



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  From: Cohen, Gerald Leonard, Fri 7/13/2007 5:20 PM To: 'ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU'
Subject: 1912 'big apple' seems to mean 'very important person'

This is a detail in the "big apple" picture. ---

     In a 6/3/20007 message Barry Popik mentioned Charles Siringo's 1912 book _A Cowboy Detective_, which on page 468 contains the quote: 'Look out boys, little apples always go to the bottom of the barrel!" Of course this put himself in the big apple class, which caused a roar of laughter.'

     I obtained the book for the full quote, which was spoken by President Teddy Roosevelt. By contrasting himself with the little apples who go to the bottom of the barrel (i.e., the children who were at risk of falling from the train), he was a big apple (i.e., very important person). I'm not sure this is hilarious, but I guess you had to be there.      Here's a fuller version of the "big apple" quote:

p. 467: 'President Roosevelt...was returning to Washington from his noted bear hunt.  He made a short speech from the rear of his private car. ...

 p. 468: 'While making his heart-to-heart-talk to the great audience, the President showed his regard for the safety of others, and also the activity of his massive brain.

     'On the rear end of the coach dozens of children were hanging.  The engine backed up to the train and the jolt knocked some of these "kids" off onto the track where they would be been run over had the coach moved a few feet further.  With outstretched arms ready for action, the President sprang forward and grabbed at some of the urchins who were still hanging onto the car.  The coach came to a standstill before any damage had been done, and quicker than a flash the President's whole countenance changed, and with a smile he said: "Look out boys, little apples always go to the bottom of the barrel!"

      'Of coure this put himself in the big apple class, which caused a roar of laughter.  But the point which struck me forcibly was the quick action of both thought and speech.'

Gerald Cohen.

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