"high yeller" revisited
Laurence Horn
laurence.horn at YALE.EDU
Sat Nov 17 00:55:00 UTC 2007
Just thought of this exchange as I was listening to Mississippi John
Hurt singing "Big Leg Blues" (from the 1928 Avalon Blues recording).
One of the verses:
Some crave high yeller, I like black and brown
Some crave high yeller, I like black and brown
Black won't quit you, brown won't lay you down
The "yeller" is non-rhotic, but definitely schwa-final, and not /o/-final.
(Full lyrics available at http://www.harptab.com/lyrics/ly4520.shtml
for those who have no aversion to Comic Sans--you CSophobes know who
you are.)
LH
At 6:43 PM -0400 10/10/07, Dennis Preston wrote:
>Where you been, Wilson? .I heard high yeller (only from Black folk)
>in the Louisville area very frequently in the late 50s and early 60s.
>I was later amused in some PhD class at Wisconsin, where it was
>"revealed" to me as a term none of us would ever have encountered.
>Maybe they thought they were in touch with people with limited
>encounters. Maybe they were right, now that I think about it.
>
>dInIs
>
>>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>-----------------------
>>Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>Poster: Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
>>Subject: Re: antedating (?) "Katy, bar the door" (1890)
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>Someone actually writes "high yeller"?! Who knew? Well, BE does insert
>>/r/ a la Britspeak.
>>
>>FWIW, I've never heard "high yellow" spoken by anyone of whatever
>>race, creed, color, nationality, or sexual orientation. Is there any
>>evidence that this has ever been used in the wild by anyone, even in
>>the past? My Texas and Alabama friends and relatives use(d) "bright"
>>(Texas) and "bright-skinned" (Alabama). In Saint Louis,
>>"light-skinned" was the universal term, though a couple consisting of
>>a dark-skinned partner and a light-skinned partner might be referred
>>to jokingly as "night & day." Recently, I've been hearing white people
>>refer to a couple consisting of a black person and a white person as
>>"night & day," replacing the older "salt-&-pepper team."
>>
>>I first heard "salt & pepper team" on a TV cop show set in Los
>>Angeles, only later hearing it in the Boston wild applied to me and
>>one of my housemates. She was a *very* dark-skinned white person,
>>darker than my mother, in fact, after a summer of soaking up the UV,
>>of Rumanian-Jewish descent. So, I felt that evvithang would be cool.
>>Unfortunately, there must be some racist version of gaydar. As soon as
>>we got out of the car, shouts of "salt-&-paper team" began to rain
>>down upon us. Oh, well. What can you do?
>>
>>-Wilson
>>
>>-Wilson
>>On 10/10/07, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu> wrote:
>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>-----------------------
>>> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>> Poster: Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
>>> Subject: Re: antedating (?) "Katy, bar the door" (1890)
>>>
>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> At 4:47 PM -0400 10/4/07, Wilson Gray wrote:
>>> >I've long noted that same phenomenon, myself, used by British writers.
>>> >I've never understood why they don't use "-uh" or "-a," the way we do,
>>> >well, the way we do, now, at least. It's far more transparent. :-)
>>> >
>>> >-Wilson
>>>
>>> Not just the Brits. Am I writing in assuming, as I always have, that
>>> "yeller" as in "high yeller" (for skin pigmentation) or "Old Yeller"
>>> (for the eponymous pooch) is so written to indicate final /@/ rather
>>> than the standard /o/, and that the rhotic pronunciation is
>>> essentially the same as that below (or in "Eeyore")?
>>>
>>> LH
>>>
>>> >
>>> >On 10/3/07, Benjamin Zimmer <bgzimmer at babel.ling.upenn.edu> wrote:
>>> >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>> >>-----------------------
>>> >> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>> >> Poster: Benjamin Zimmer <bgzimmer at BABEL.LING.UPENN.EDU>
>>> >> Subject: Re: antedating (?) "Katy, bar the door" (1890)
>>> >>
>>> >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >>
>>> >> As it happens, I've just posted something on Language Log about
>>> >> orthographic <r> in non-rhotic pronunciation spellings (specifically
>>> >> <er> used to represent [@:]).
>>> >>
>>> > > http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/004985.html
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On 10/3/07, Dennis R. Preston <preston at msu.edu> wrote:
>>> >> > Wilson,
>>> >> >
>>> >> > It's very doubtful that this orthographic /r/ indicates a phonetic
>> > >> > one. In reading the JC Harris stories, for example, folk who don't
>>> >> > know southern speech interpret such things as Br'er Rabbit as BRY-er
>>> >> > or some such silliness. We know, of course, that it is is "brother"
>> > >> > (bruh) and that Harris was using the "r" to indicate vowel quality
>>> >> > (usually wedge or lengthening, as in "bar" in your quote I think, or
>>> >> > both).
>>> >> >
>>> >> > dInIs
>>>
>>> >> >
>>> >> > >---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>> >> > >-----------------------
>>> >> > >Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>> >> > >Poster: Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
>>> >> > >Subject: Re: antedating (?) "Katy, bar the door" (1890)
>>> >>
>>>> >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >> > >
>>>
>>> >> > >"When she say that, hit's 'Katy, bar _ther_ do',' then, _fer_ she's
>>> >> > >gwine _ter_ do it."
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > >I assume that the passage is a bit of eye-dialect BE.
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > >Therefore, FWIW, I note that shwa [I spell it this way because I
>>> >> > >choose to] is replaced by shwa+r in this way in some fairly rare
>>> >> > >dialects of BE to this day. A ninety-ish cousin of mine
>>>from down home
>>> >> > >in Texas uses it and I've heard it used by the odd
>>>speaker/singer from
>>> >> > >bluesman to hiphopper. It sounds rather strange, hearing someone use
>>> >> > >an "r" where nobody else does, whereas the person doesn't use "r"
>>> >> > >where the standard, at least, does use one.`
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > >-Wilson
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > >On 10/3/07, Benjamin Zimmer <bgzimmer at babel.ling.upenn.edu> wrote:
>>> >> > >> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>> >> > >>-----------------------
>>> >> > >> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>> >> > >> Poster: Benjamin Zimmer <bgzimmer at BABEL.LING.UPENN.EDU>
>>> >> > >> Subject: Re: antedating (?) "Katy, bar the door" (1890)
>>> >> > >>
>>> >>
>>>> >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >> > >>
>>>
>>> >> > >> On 10/3/07, Benjamin Zimmer <bgzimmer at ling.upenn.edu> wrote:
>>> >> > >> >
>>> >> > >> > 1888 _Current Literature_ Dec. 499/1 When she say
>>>that, hits 'Katy,
>>> >> > >> > bar ther do, then, fer she's gwineter do it.
>>> >> > >> > [HNP Doc ID 229263831]
>>> >> > >>
>>> >> > >> Sorry, missed some punctuation in there:
>>> >> > >>
>>> >> > >> 1888 _Current Literature_ Dec. 499/1 When she say that,
>>>hits 'Katy,
>>> >> > >> bar ther do', then, fer she's gwineter do it.
>>> >> > >>
>>> >> > >>
>>> >> > >> --Ben Zimmer
>>> >> > >>
>>> >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >> > >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>> > > > >>
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > >
>>>
>>> >> > >--
>>> >> > >All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange
>>>complaint to
>>> >> > >come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>>> >> > >-----
>>> >> > > -Sam'l Clemens
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > >------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >> > >The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>>
>>> >> > --
>>> >> > Dennis R. Preston
>>> >> > University Distinguished Professor
>>> >> > Department of English
>>> >> > 15C Morrill Hall
>>> >> > Michigan State University
>>> >> > East Lansing, MI 48824
>>> >> > 517-353-4736
>>> >> > preston at msu.edu
>>> >> >
>>> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>> >> >
>>> >>
>>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>> >--
>>> >All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
>>> >come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>>> >-----
>>> > -Sam'l Clemens
>>> >
>>> >------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>> >
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
>>come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>>-----
>> -Sam'l Clemens
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------
>>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
>
>--
>Dennis R. Preston
>University Distinguished Professor
>Department of English
>Morrill Hall 15-C
>Michigan State University
>East Lansing, MI 48864 USA
>
>------------------------------------------------------------
>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
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