antedating (?) "Katy, bar the door" (1890)

[Laurence Horn]

At 4:47 PM -0400 10/4/07, Wilson Gray wrote:
>I've long noted that same phenomenon, myself, used by British writers.
>I've never understood why they don't use "-uh" or "-a," the way we do,
>well, the way we do, now, at least. It's far more transparent. :-)
>
>-Wilson

Not just the Brits.  Am I writing in assuming, as I always have, that
"yeller" as in "high yeller" (for skin pigmentation) or "Old Yeller"
(for the eponymous pooch) is so written to indicate final /@/ rather
than the standard /o/, and that the rhotic pronunciation is
essentially the same as that below (or in "Eeyore")?

LH

>
>On 10/3/07, Benjamin Zimmer <bgzimmer at babel.ling.upenn.edu> wrote:
>>  ---------------------- Information from the mail header
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>>  Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>  Poster:       Benjamin Zimmer <bgzimmer at BABEL.LING.UPENN.EDU>
>>  Subject:      Re: antedating (?) "Katy, bar the door" (1890)
>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>  As it happens, I've just posted something on Language Log about
>>  orthographic <r> in non-rhotic pronunciation spellings (specifically
>>  <er> used to represent [@:]).
>>
>  > http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/004985.html
>>
>>
>>
>>  On 10/3/07, Dennis R. Preston <preston at msu.edu> wrote:
>>  > Wilson,
>>  >
>>  > It's very doubtful that this orthographic /r/ indicates a phonetic
>>  > one. In reading the JC Harris stories, for example, folk who don't
>>  > know southern speech interpret such things as Br'er Rabbit as BRY-er
>>  > or some such silliness. We know, of course, that it is is "brother"
>>  > (bruh) and that Harris was using the "r" to indicate vowel quality
>>  > (usually wedge or lengthening, as in "bar" in your quote I think, or
>>  > both).
>>  >
>>  > dInIs
>>  >
>>  > >---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>  > >-----------------------
>>  > >Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>  > >Poster:       Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
>>  > >Subject:      Re: antedating (?) "Katy, bar the door" (1890)
>>  > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  > >
>>  > >"When she say that, hit's 'Katy, bar _ther_ do',' then, _fer_ she's
>>  > >gwine _ter_ do it."
>>  > >
>>  > >I assume that the passage is a bit of eye-dialect BE.
>>  > >
>>  > >Therefore, FWIW, I note that shwa [I spell it this way because I
>>  > >choose to] is replaced by shwa+r in this way in some fairly rare
>>  > >dialects of BE to this day. A ninety-ish cousin of mine from down home
>>  > >in Texas uses it and I've heard it used by the odd speaker/singer from
>>  > >bluesman to hiphopper. It sounds rather strange, hearing someone use
>>  > >an "r" where nobody else does, whereas the person doesn't use "r"
>>  > >where the standard, at least, does use one.`
>>  > >
>>  > >-Wilson
>>  > >
>>  > >
>>  > >On 10/3/07, Benjamin Zimmer <bgzimmer at babel.ling.upenn.edu> wrote:
>>  > >>  ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>  > >>-----------------------
>>  > >>  Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>  > >>  Poster:       Benjamin Zimmer <bgzimmer at BABEL.LING.UPENN.EDU>
>>  > >>  Subject:      Re: antedating (?) "Katy, bar the door" (1890)
>>  > >>
>>  > >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  > >>
>>  > >>  On 10/3/07, Benjamin Zimmer <bgzimmer at ling.upenn.edu> wrote:
>>  > >>  >
>>  > >>  > 1888 _Current Literature_ Dec. 499/1 When she say that, hits 'Katy,
>>  > >>  > bar ther do, then, fer she's gwineter do it.
>>  > >>  > [HNP Doc ID 229263831]
>>  > >>
>>  > >>  Sorry, missed some punctuation in there:
>>  > >>
>>  > >>  1888 _Current Literature_ Dec. 499/1 When she say that, hits 'Katy,
>>  > >>  bar ther do', then, fer she's gwineter do it.
>>  > >>
>>  > >>
>>  > >>  --Ben Zimmer
>>  > >>
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>  > > >>
>>  > >
>>  > >
>>  > >--
>>  > >All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
>>  > >come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>>  > >-----
>>  > >                                               -Sam'l Clemens
>>  > >
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>>  >
>>  > --
>>  > Dennis R. Preston
>>  > University Distinguished Professor
>>  > Department of English
>>  > 15C Morrill Hall
>>  > Michigan State University
>>  > East Lansing, MI 48824
>>  > 517-353-4736
>>  > preston at msu.edu
>>  >
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>
>
>--
>All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
>come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>-----
>                                               -Sam'l Clemens
>
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>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

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