X marrying Y <> Y marrying X?

[Laurence Horn]

>I'm surprised by Monica's opinion of the BJ. I didn't know that she
>also considered it not to be sex. However, I know what every good
>Southerner knows, that unless a penis enters a vagina, it's NOT sex,
>which is f***king and nothing else.

well, that *would* have the nice side effect of making sodomy or
same-sex "sex" harder to prosecute...

>  (When I was young enough to have a
>personal interest in the BJ, the average colored fellow was completely
>unaware of the term "BJ" or of its expansion. We *were* aware of the
>existence of the act, but only as a thing that someone could do, but
>which no one would do. I heard the phrase, "polish knob," used by
>black GI's, but that's it.)

I first read that as an ethnic joke, but of course that would be a
*P*olish knob

>  Starr, being a home boy / good ole boy
>himself, would have known the same thing. Hence, I've always
>considered him to be about a hypocritical melon farmer. Mutatis
>mutandis, Starr would have testified exactly as Clinton did.
>

unlikely as he would have been to be either WJC's or ML's type...

LH

>On 9/11/07, Benjamin Zimmer <bgzimmer at babel.ling.upenn.edu> wrote:
>>  ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>-----------------------
>>  Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>  Poster:       Benjamin Zimmer <bgzimmer at BABEL.LING.UPENN.EDU>
>>  Subject:      Re: X marrying Y <> Y marrying X?
>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>  On 9/11/07, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at yale.edu> wrote:
>>  > At 2:44 PM +0000 9/11/07, ronbutters at AOL.COM wrote:
>>  > >One would think this would have applied to sodomy laws as well, but
>>  > >I know of at least 2 cases of consentual sex in which the man was
>>  > >found guilty and the woman was not.
>>  >
>>  > But as President Clinton taught us, "have sex with"--in at least one
>>  > sodomy-relevant context--is not a symmetric predicate even if "marry"
>>  > is.  After all, he explained, Monica Lewinsky had sex with him, but
>>  > not vice versa.
>>
>>  Was that really how it all went down (so to speak)? My recollection
>>  was that both parties tried to claim that the relevant acts didn't
>>  constitute "having sex", so there was no asymmetry. Let's go to the
>>  tape...
>>
>>  -----
>>  http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/1998/10/03/archive/main19029.shtml
>>
>>  LEWINSKY: We didn't have sex, Linda.
>>
>>  TRIPP: Well, what do you call it?
>>
>>  LEWINSKY: We fooled around.
>>
>>  TRIPP: Oh.
>>
>>  LEWINSKY: Not sex.
>>
>>  TRIPP: Oh, I don't know. I think if you go to if you go to orgasm,
>>  that's having sex.
>>
>>  LEWINSKY: No, it's not.
>>
>>  TRIPP: Yes it is.
>>
>>  LEWINSKY: No it's not. It's
>>
>>  TRIPP: It's not having
>>
>>  LEWINSKY: Having sex is having intercourse.
>>
>>  TRIPP: Oh, you've been around him too long. That's his
>>
>>  LEWINSKY: Nuh-uh.
>>
>>  TRIPP: rationale.
>>
>>  LEWINSKY: That's well, that's my then I've had sex with a lot more people.
>>
>>  TRIPP: Oh? (Laughing).
>>
>>  LEWINSKY: Having sex is having intercourse. That's how most people would
>>
>>  TRIPP: Oh, so (REDACTED) jobs and all of that don't count?
>>
>>  LEWINSKY: They don't count.
>>
>>  TRIPP: Oh? Well, see? You have to inform me
>>
>>  LEWINSKY: Those are guys that you just fool around with.
>>
>>  ... TRIPP: You mean it's less personal to give a (REDACTED) job than
>>  to have intercourse?
>>
>>  LEWINSKY: No, not necessarily. Sometimes. It depends.
>>
>>  TRIPP: I guess it depends.
>>
>>  LEWINSKY: It really depends.
>>
>>  TRIPP: Yeah, I'm getting an education late in life.
>>  -----
>>
>>
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>>
>
>
>--
>All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
>come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>-----
>                                               -Sam'l Clemens
>
>------------------------------------------------------------
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