Sarah Lang slang at UCHICAGO.EDU
Tue Sep 25 14:17:27 UTC 2007

On Sep 24, 2007, at 10:31 AM, Douglas G. Wilson wrote:

> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       "Douglas G. Wilson" <douglas at NB.NET>
> Subject:      Re: Finally!
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> ---------
>> Though skin pigmentation is irrelevant per se, HDAS suggests (and I
>> believe) that "to fuck over X"
>>   a. was indeed the original form in the sense in question,
>>   b. has been vastly more prevalent among speakers of AAVE - so
>> much so as to sugget the idiom's origin there,
>>   c. was not much used in white speech before the mid '70s,
>>   d. still sounds rhythmically or positionally "wrong" to me as a
>> speaker of WAVE.
>>   Earliest HDAS ex. is from 1961, but the context suggests it was
>> around for a while.
>>   The form "fuck X over" undoubtedly owes something to "work X
>> over."  I believe this is becoming the general form.
> So "f*ck over X" was originally parallel to "lord over X" [I believe
> this is now more commonly "lord it over X"?] rather than parallel to
> "work over X"?
> Then one might speculate that the origin of "f*ck over" might have
> involved "lord over" (and not "work over"). Especially if the
> original sense was more like "disrespect" rather than like "damage".
> Just woolgathering.
> -- Doug Wilson

I feel like Jesse should weigh in here--that aside--I would read "to
frak over X" as to cheat, or "to pull one over X" which is not the
same as "to lord over."

That said, someone can just be play ol'fraked by someone/thing else
in which case there is a sense of "lord over."


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