Heard on The Judges: sE > to BE

Wed Apr 9 06:21:10 UTC 2008

I puzzled over this until i realized that in my speech "have got"
(often reduced to "got" in 1st and 2nd but not 3rd persons) is the
casual, not nonstandard form. Perhaps that's what you meant by the ""
around standard. At any rate, you are certainly right "I got, you
got, he's/she's got game" are all acceptable while "I have, you have,
he/she has game" are all to laugh. (This person preference, by the
way, is what leads to the interesting frequency of "Do you got..."
constructions over "Do he/she got....")

Perhaps I will change the name of this search from "Obligatory and
preferred nonstandard constructions" to "Obligatory and preferred
nonstandard and casual constructions." (Course they always them out
there that reckon any casual/informal forms as nonstandard, but Homey
don't play that.)

dInIs

>---------------------- Information from the mail header
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>Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>Poster:       "Baker, John" <JMB at STRADLEY.COM>
>Subject:      Re: Heard on The Judges: sE > to BE
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Yes, for some of these examples the "standard" version doesn't work at =
>all  (*He has game), but in other cases the "standard" version nominally =
>works but really has a changed meaning (That isn't hay - it must be =
>straw).
>=20
>=20
>John Baker
>
>________________________________
>
>From: American Dialect Society on behalf of Dennis Preston
>Sent: Wed 4/9/2008 1:24 AM
>To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>Subject: Re: Heard on The Judges: sE > to BE
>
>
>
>This is a  very interesting point about nonstandards. In this case I
>belive you suggest that the "ain't" version is more likely to refer
>to situations, unexpected differences, etc... that to the perhaps
>unmarked "incorrect" reading. This is most like the diph (or even
>triph)thongal "shit" I referred to earlier, although in that case the
>"nonstandard" (mock southern I think) version can only refer to
>non-feces uses of the word (while the lax vowel version is multiply
>ambiguous).
>
>Sheee-it, that's a ugly dawg!
>Don step in that dawg shit!
>Shit, that's a ugly dawg!
>*Don step in that dawg shee-it.
>
>dInIs
>
>>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>-----------------------
>>Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>Poster:       "Baker, John" <JMB at STRADLEY.COM>
>>Subject:      Re: Heard on The Judges: sE > to BE
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------=
>-------
>>
>>I think it's pretty common:  232,000 Google hits.  Clearly not the same =
>=3D
>>as "that isn't right," which is more the kind of thing you would say =
>=3D
>>about an incorrect math answer.
>>=3D20
>>=3D20
>>John Baker
>>=3D20
>>
>>________________________________
>>
>>From: American Dialect Society on behalf of Dennis Preston
>>Sent: Tue 4/8/2008 1:30 PM
>>To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>Subject: Re: Heard on The Judges: sE > to BE
>>
>>
>>
>>You're right; brand names might be out, but I don't understand "That
>>ain't right."
>>
>>dInIs
>>
>>>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>-----------------------
>>>Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>Poster:       "Baker, John" <JMB at STRADLEY.COM>
>>>Subject:      Re: Heard on The Judges: sE > to BE
>>>-----------------------------------------------------------------------=
>-=3D
>>-------
>>>
>>>           I'm not sure if you're counting uses that are really =3D
>>quotations,
>>>such as "Say it ain't so, Joe."  But "That ain't right" should =
>qualify.
>>>I think that in general I hear "ain't" less often than in years past,
>>>though that could be a function of my living in suburban Maryland =3D
>>rather
>>>than rural Kentucky.
>>>
>>>           I do hear "You're the man" (though not "You are the man").  =
>=3D
>>The
>>>"apples" version I'm used to is "How do you like them apples?"
>>>
>>>           I don't think brand names, such as "Dunkin' Donuts," should
>  >>count.
>>>
>>>           Outlook's spell-check tried to get me to change "ain't" to
>>>"isn't" when I first started to send this message.
>>>
>>>
>>>John Baker
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: American Dialect Society [mailto:ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On =3D
>>Behalf
>>>Of Dennis Preston
>>>Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 11:02 AM
>>>To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>>Subject: Re: Heard on The Judges: sE > to BE
>>>
>>>Almost certainly the case, and recall that I continue to be interested
>>>in people providing me with even further examples of obligatory
>>>nonstandards.
>>>
>>>E.g.,
>>>
>>>What do you think of (or "How bout") them (never "those") apples.
>>>
>>>You the ("da") man (never "You are the man").
>>>
>>>/Si:It/ for metaphoric uses, but never for feces. (/SIt/ is OK for =
>both
>>>uses.) (/S/ =3D3D palatal sibilant)
>>>
>>>You can't go to "Dunking Donuts," even if you claim to never "drop =
>your
>>>g's."
>>>
>>>Are there any obligatory "ain'ts"? Others?
>>>
>>>dInIs
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>-----------------------
>>>>Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>>Poster:       Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
>>>>Subject:      Heard on The Judges: sE > to BE
>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------=
>-=3D
>>
>>>>--------
>>>>
>>>>Some may recall that I once claimed that, regardless of a speaker's
>>>>usual register, he tends to move it toward the working-class norm, =
>=3D
>>when
>>>
>>>>using slang or slang-like expressions.
>>>>
>>>>Middle-class, black, male speaker complaining about his cheating =
>wife:
>>>>
>>>>She was unbelievable, your honor! She _wadn_ cool at at all. She =
>would
>>>>call me at work to find out when I was coming home, so that she would
>>   >>know how much time she had to do her _thing [TaeIN]_!"
>>>>
>>>>-Wilson
>>>>--
>>>>All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint =
>to
>>>>come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>>>>-----
>>>>     -Sam'l Clemens
>>>>
>>>>------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>Dennis R. Preston
>>>University Distinguished Professor
>>>Department of English
>>>Morrill Hall 15-C
>>>Michigan State University
>>>East Lansing, MI 48864 USA
>>>
>>>------------------------------------------------------------
>>>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>
>>>------------------------------------------------------------
>>>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>>
>>--
>>Dennis R. Preston
>>University Distinguished Professor
>>Department of English
>>Morrill Hall 15-C
>>Michigan State University
>>East Lansing, MI 48864 USA
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------
>>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------
>>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
>
>--
>Dennis R. Preston
>University Distinguished Professor
>Department of English
>Morrill Hall 15-C
>Michigan State University
>East Lansing, MI 48864 USA
>
>------------------------------------------------------------
>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
>------------------------------------------------------------
>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

--
Dennis R. Preston
University Distinguished Professor
Department of English
Morrill Hall 15-C
Michigan State University
East Lansing, MI 48864 USA

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org