Chinglish and childishness

Tom Zurinskas truespel at HOTMAIL.COM
Fri Aug 29 20:13:11 UTC 2008


Another moron.  He says.

There IS NO such "alphabetical principle" that any competent linguist or> phoneticial would subscribe to. What this really means is that YOU believe= that,>in writing English, letters SHOULD stand for sounds in some kind of 1:1> relationship as determined largely by your ear and prejudices.

He says there is "no such thing as the alphabetical principal" - insane.
He says anyone who says they hear things a certain way is instituting a prejudice - So don't say how you hear things because you are introducing a prejudice. - insane

>From Noah Webster on the Alphabetical Principle (that letters stand for sounds)
'Now is the time [for spelling reform] and this is the country'
Letters, the most useful invention that ever blessed mankind,
lose a part of their value by no longer being representatives
of the sounds originally annexed to them."
The effect is, "to destroy the benefits of the alphabet."
http://foolswisdom.com/users/sbett/Webster-Franklikn-Bernard.html

Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
See truespel.com - and the 4 truespel books plus "Occasional Poems" at authorhouse.com.




> Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:25:19 -0400
> From: RonButters at AOL.COM
> Subject: Chinglish and childishness
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender: American Dialect Society
> Poster: RonButters at AOL.COM
> Subject: Chinglish and childishness
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I used caps to emphasize THREE words. E-mail does not allow for italics or=20
> boldface, so upper-casing them is an acceptable method of highlighting them.=
> =20
> Only someone who was bent on misinterpreting the intent of the writer would=20=
> have=20
> characterized that usage as "screaming." Could we please keep the level of=20
> discourse here to that of adults? Ditto for the puerile comment about the=20
> imagined sex lives of list-serv participants.
>
> As for the description of "the alphabetic principle" as discussed on=20
> wikipedia [!], this is a common-sense description that bears little resembla=
> nce to the=20
> use of "the alphabetic principle" as enunciated by the truespel guy. In=20
> particular, the wiki article writes, "All alphabetic writing systems are=20
> imperfectly phonological and diverge from that ideal to a greater or lesser=20=
> extent." The=20
> truespel guy's "alphabetic principle" more or less requires everyone to make=
> =20
> the same 1:1 correspondence between spelling and pronunciation. Think, for=20
> example, of his ridiculous position on the merger of "ah" and "aw".
>
> Oh, and how can someone living in China really believe that it is=20
> "impossible" for younmg people to memorize huge numbers of nonalphabetic sym=
> bols in order=20
> to make use of a writing system.
>
>> From: LanDi Liu
>>=20
>> Date:=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0 Sat, 30 Aug 2008 00:35:34
>> To:
>> Subject:=A0 =A0 =A0 Re: [ADS-L] Chinglish
>>=20
>>=20
>> What the hell?
>>=20
>> Ron, before you put words in other people's mouths and start screaming
>> in all caps, maybe you should read this:
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphabetic_principle
>>=20
>> Most writing systems that I'm familiar with use the alphabetic
>> principle, including English.=A0 In modern English the letter
>> combination "igh" normally represents [ai].=A0 It's not a 1:1
>> relationship, and even in Tom's truespel, there is not a 1:1
>> relationship for every letter/sound combination.=A0 Only IPA boasts
>> that, and that gets broken here and there by the best of them.
>>=20
>> "Alphabetical writing systems APPROXIMATE pronunciations."=A0 Yeah,
>> that's kinda the whole point of the alphabetic principle.
>>=20
>> The alphabetic principle is important especially to kids learning how
>> to read.=A0 If there was no such principle in English then kids would
>> have to memorize the spellings of tens of thousands of words
>> independently of each other.=A0 To beginning readers, especially kids,
>> that would be basically impossible.
>>=20
>> I think a lot of people on this list need to get laid more often.
>>=20
>> Randy
>>=20
>> On Sat, Aug 30, 2008 at 12:09 AM,=A0  wrote:
>>> In a message dated 8/29/08 11:58:21 AM, truespel at HOTMAIL.COM writes:
>>>> The alphabetical principle is that letters stand for sounds.
>>>>
>>> There IS NO such "alphabetical principle" that any competent linguist or
>>> phoneticial would subscribe to. What this really means is that YOU belie=
> ve=20
>> that,
>>> in writing English, letters SHOULD stand for sounds in some kind of 1:1
>>> relationship as determined largely by your ear and prejudices. The fact=20=
> is=20
>> that in
>>> the history of alphabetical writing systems--and certainly for a languag=
> e=20
>> as
>>> complicated socially and geographically as English--this has NEVER been=20
>> the case.
>>> Alphabetical writing systems APPROXIMATE pronunciations. When I write=20
>> "high,"
>>> do you see a word that ends in an aspirated [g] sound? When i write=20
>> "high,"
>>> do you hear a vowel that ends in an offglide or is simply a lengthened=20
>> [a]? Or
>>> is it the stressed vowel of "machine"? Enough!
>>>
>>>
>>> **************
>>> It's only a deal
>>> if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here.
>>>
>>> (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=3Daoltrv00050000000047)
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> --
>> Randy Alexander
>> Jilin City, China
>> My Manchu studies blog:
>> http://www.bjshengr.com/manchu
>>=20
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>=20
>>=20
>
>
>
>
> **************
> It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel=20
> deal here.
> =20
> (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=3Daoltrv00050000000047)
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

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