does anyone need another example of positive ANYMORE?

[Wilson Gray]

Had I not heard the joke till ca.1970, I think that I possibly would
have gotten that as the point without the teller's explanation. Things
had really changed, by then. Not until 1971, when I was in my early
thirties, did I meet the first white person that I came to regard as a
friend in the same sense that I regarded another black person as a
friend. At one time, I felt that it would _never_ be the case that a
black person would _ever_ feel as comfortable and relaxed in the
presence of white people as he did in the company of other black
people. Society simply wouldn't permit it. There was a saying that I
first heard in the play, _The Boys in the Band_, that pretty much
summed up the situation:

No matter how you figger
It's hard to be a nigger
But it's even harder still
To be a Jew

-Wilson

On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 9:09 AM, Jonathan Lighter
<wuxxmupp2000 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
>  Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>  Poster:       Jonathan Lighter <wuxxmupp2000 at YAHOO.COM>
>
> Subject:      Re: does anyone need another example of positive ANYMORE?
>  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>  Funny. (I mean "peculiar.")  When I first heard the joke ca.1970 the teller explained that the laff was on the Lone Ranger because Tonto's consciousness had been raised and he wasn't gonna shuffle and scrape no more for the Man.
>
>   I always thought Tonto and the Ranger were a team and the Ranger was in charge only because he had the mask and the horse and the bullets and the suit and the TV show.
>   Tonto never seemed like a dope or a second-class individual. Well, I guess I'm just no good after all.
>
>   As for Tonto's name, the Tonto Basin was named for the Tonto Apaches, who are still so designated.  Their Apache name, according to Wikipedia, seems to mean "people with high-pitched voices,"  so maybe they can't win either way.
>
>   Of course, in _English_, which I talk, "Tonto" simply means "Tonto."
>
>   JL
>
>
>  Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>   ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
>  Sender: American Dialect Society
>  Poster: Wilson Gray
>
> Subject: Re: does anyone need another example of positive ANYMORE?
>  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> I heard the punchline ca.1944 as "What you mean, 'we,' white man?" And
>  no mention was made of weapons. Of course, such jokes have many
>  different versions. I heard it in Saint Louis from a white neighbor
>  boy and I took its point to be that, when the deal goes down, white
>  people can not trust the non-white and I didn't find it humorous at
>  all.
>
>  -Wilson
>
>
> On 2/14/08, James Harbeck wrote:
>  > ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
>  > Sender: American Dialect Society
>  >
>  > Poster: James Harbeck
>
> >
>  > Subject: Re: does anyone need another example of positive ANYMORE?
>  > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  >
>  >
>
> > >BTW, I am indeed white. I've only been called paleface in Makah, though,
>  > >never in English. BB
>  >
>  >
>  > The line "Whaddya mean 'we,' paleface?" is from a joke -- I thought I
>  > had mentioned it here before, but I am perhaps mistaken. It goes like
>  > this: The Lone Ranger and Tonto are holed up in a high crag, on the
>  > run from large numbers of highly irritated Indians who, perhaps, have
>  > wearied of being targets for LR's bullets. The look to the north:
>  > Indians. To the south: Indians. To the east: Indians. To the west:
>  > ...uh... yup, more Indians. LR turns to Tonto and says, "Well, Tonto,
>  > looks like we're surrounded." Tonto turns, reaches for his weapon,
>  > and says, "Whaddya mean 'we,' paleface?"
>  >
>  >
>  > James Harbeck, who is probably even paler than you (and occasionally
>  > beyond the pale). Even if he did grow up on and near an Indian
>  > reserve.
>  >
>  >
>  > ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>  >
>
>
>
> --
>  All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
>  come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>  -----
>  -Sam'l Clemens
>
>  ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>  Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
>
>
>
>  ------------------------------------------------------------
>  The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>



--
All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
-----
 -Sam'l Clemens

------------------------------------------------------------
The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org