Orange, forest, etc.

Mark Mandel thnidu at GMAIL.COM
Tue Jan 1 03:39:32 UTC 2008

Hmm. I grew up in NYC suburbs and city, with parents who were both NYC-born.
For the recent discussion, I have /a/ in orange, corridor, and forest, /O/
in moral. Generally I have /a/ for "short o" not before /r/, including hog
and frog, with dog /dOg/ as the notable and possibly sole exception. I may
partially round some of these in some speaking/performing styles, and in
making rhymes (I write some songs and poems) I'll often conflate /a/ and

m a m

On Dec 31, 2007 10:44 AM, Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at> wrote:

> At 10:33 AM -0500 12/31/07, Joel S. Berson wrote:
> >At 12/31/2007 10:09 AM, Laurence Horn wrote:
> >As I mentioned earlier in the thread, /a/ is
> >>native in these for me (NYC until 1957, Long
> >>Island 1957-61), but I consciously switched
> >>(inconsistently) to open-o when I went to college
> >>in Rochester and got ridiculed for my
> >>pronunciation of "moral", "orange", and
> >>especially "corridor".  ...
> >
> >Thanks for mentioning "moral", which I vacillate on.  I would never
> >use the "dog" vowel for "orange", "forest", and "corridor", and
> >couldn't imagine a New-Yorker doing so.
> >
> >Joel
> >
> I know, I feel like a turncoat.  What can I say.  I promise to hold
> the line on hogs, frogs, and their buddies, though.
> LH

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