English words beginning with <j> pronounced [Z]?
Wilson Gray
hwgray at GMAIL.COM
Thu Jan 24 20:18:15 UTC 2008
So, "Jacques" is the source of "Jakes"? And the black football player
named "Jacques" who pronounces it "Jakwiz" is actually following an
old English tradition? Does anyone else remember the black former
boxer from Louisiana, Beau Jacques, known amongst the colored as "Bo
Jack?"
As a child in Saint Louis, I was acquainted with a girl named "John."
I was further much confused by the fact that her name was spelled
"Jeanne." Of course, now, I understand. /Z/ is non-existent in BE
initially and finally and extremely rare medially, so this Jeanne
remains "John" to this day. All other black "Jeannes that I've known
have been named [dZin].
Since then, the only American "Jeannes" that I've met, whether in
California or in Massachusetts, have been white women named [dZini].
Don't y'all find the pronunciation of the final /e/ in "Jeanne" at
all, let alone as /i/, somewhat odd?
-Wilson
-Wilson
On 1/22/08, Dennis Preston <preston at msu.edu> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster: Dennis Preston <preston at MSU.EDU>
> Subject: Re: English words beginning with <j> pronounced [Z]?
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> LH,
>
> I believe the recommended Shakespearian version was /Jekwiz/ not /Jakwiz/.
>
> dInIs
>
> >---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >-----------------------
> >Sender: American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >Poster: Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
> >Subject: Re: English words beginning with <j> pronounced [Z]?
> >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >At 4:20 AM +0000 1/22/08, Tom Zurinskas wrote:
> >>Borrowed French words like genre ~zhaanru, (where ~aa sounds like
> >>"ah" and ~u like "uh".) Also Jacques, ~zhaaks.
> >
> >Seems like if someone is going to bother with the /Z/ for "Jacques",
> >they'll go the whole hog: /Zak/, not /Zaks/. (For Shakespeare, I
> >believe it was anglicized to something like /Jakwiz/.) And the riddle
> >posed by Nadia Gabriel below originally specified an initial <j>, not
> ><g>, FWIW.
> >
> >LH
> >
> >>
> >>Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
> >>See truespel.com - and the 4 truespel books plus "Occasional Poems"
> >>at authorhouse.com.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 14:42:43 -0500
> >>> From: laurence.horn at YALE.EDU
> >>> Subject: Re: English words beginning with pronounced [Z]?
> >>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >>>
> >>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >>>-----------------------
> >>> Sender: American Dialect Society
> >>> Poster: Laurence Horn
> >>> Subject: Re: English words beginning with pronounced [Z]?
> >>>
> >>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>> At 1:56 PM -0500 1/21/08, Charles Doyle wrote:
> >>>>A while back, didn't we discuss a word pronounced [ZUZ], a noun
> >>>>referring to a quick shake given to something? I have no idea how
> >>>>the word might be spelled!
> >>>>
> >>>>--Charlie
> >>>
> >>> Most posters who seemed to know (or at least seemed to be confident)
> >>> had it as "zhuzh", and cited Queer Eye for the Straight Guy as the
> >>> vector. (Steve Kleinedler may have nominated it for one of the WOTY
> >>> categories a couple of years ago.)
> >>>
> >>> LH
> >>>
> >>>>_____________________________________________________________
> >>>>
> >>>>---- Original message ----
> >>>>>Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 13:19:07 -0500
> >>>>>From: Dennis Preston >
> >>>>>In LIN 101 we teach students that /Z/ (the second sound in 'azure'
> >>>>>the last sound in 'garage') is a silly sound (like ng) which can
> >>>>>occur internally and finally but never initially. In final position
> >>>>>it is giving way to /dZ/, and here in good-talking and linguistically
> >>>>>secure Michigan, people surveyed were not sensitive to the final /dZ/
> >>>>>pronunciation as nonstandard.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>dInIs
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>---------------------- Information from the mail header
> >>>>>>-----------------------
> >>>>>>Sender: American Dialect Society
> >>>>>>Poster: Nadia Gabriel
> >>>>>>Subject: English words beginning with pronounced [Z]?
> >>>>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Dear all,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>A question out of a friend's curious brain - he is French,
> >>>>>>currently taking
> >>>>>>lessons to improve his English:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Do you know of words, common word or proper names, in the
> >>>>>>English language
> >>>>>>that begin with the letter but that are pronounced without the [d]
> >>>>>>sound, just the [Z] sound?
> >>>>>>Or, to put it another way, words where the initial is pronounced as in
> >>>>>>French?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>I can't think of any!
> >>>>>>An advanced search in the OED Online ("Entries containing Z
> >>>>>>in Pronunciations") retrieves only one word: jinricksha, jinrikisha,
> >>>>>>*n.*,
> >>>>>>from Japanese.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>I'd be grateful for any comments!
> >>>>>> (I must add I didn't read all the article under the entry for
> >>>>>>the letter J,
> >>>>>>which also appeared in the results of my search - Wonderful OED)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Thank you,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Nadia Gabriel
> >>>>>> Librarian & Translator
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> > >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>--
> >>>>>Dennis R. Preston
> >>>>>University Distinguished Professor
> >>>>>Department of English
> >>>>>Morrill Hall 15-C
> >>>>>Michigan State University
> >>>>>East Lansing, MI 48864 USA
> >>>>>
> >>>>>------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>>>
> >>>>------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
> >>
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>
> --
> Dennis R. Preston
> University Distinguished Professor
> Department of English
> Morrill Hall 15-C
> Michigan State University
> East Lansing, MI 48864 USA
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
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