Heard on The Judges

[Wilson Gray]

To me, it means a person and those people that, in the context of the
conversation, you would expect to  be with him or her.

"I went over Larry-nim house" = Larry and his wife and children, plus
anyone else - his mother-in-law? - that you would normally expect to
find living with him

"Last time that I was down at Yale, I saw Larry-nim" = Larry and his
favorite or usual departmental colleagues with whom you and I are also
familiar, though our primary relationship may be only with Larry.

We going down to P-A to see Betty-nim" = my mother-in-law, three
siblings-in-law, and their respective spouses, chirrin, and friends,
all of whom live in separate residences, but who all live in
Pennsylvania and are all, of course, associated with my mother-in-law.

-Wilson

On Jan 26, 2008 5:48 PM, Douglas G. Wilson <douglas at nb.net> wrote:
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> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       "Douglas G. Wilson" <douglas at NB.NET>
> Subject:      Re: Heard on The Judges
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>
> >>Meaning "Mom and her family", "John and his family"?
> >>
> >>m a m (not M&M or Eminem)
> >
> >Basically, but not necessarily the respective family as such; could
> >be people they live with or work with or hang out with, depending on
> >the context, as I understand it.  I could be wrong, though, since
> >it's not native to me.  I wonder if there's a distinction between
> >those areas in which the last vowel is a schwa and those where it's
> >an [E].
>
> Some Pittsburghers say these things, and maybe they're more prevalent
> here than somewhere else; the one that's most often mentioned (I
> think) is "and that" (usually "n'at", /nn&t/ or /@n&t/ or so), which
> I've heard other places too. I've heard /nnEm/ or /@nEm/ or so
> usually for "and them". I suppose unstressed it's sometimes /nn at m/ or
> /@n at m/  or so, but I don't remember whether I've heard this. I do not
> hear these things every day even here in Pittsburgh area (unlike e.g.
> the "needs washed" sort of construction).
>
> The way I understand these things they are:
>
> "and that" = "etc.", usually used like "and the other things"/"and
> things like that"
>
> "and them" = "et al.", usually used like "and the others"/"and other
> people like that"
>
> Imaginary example: "Thanks to Shakespeare and them we have all these
> plays and that." = "Thanks to Shakespeare et al. we have all these plays etc.".
>
> The exact items or persons referred to would depend on the context,
> just as with "etc." or "et al.", I think.
>
> Of course I don't claim that my own experience is necessarily
> representative of anything much.
>
> -- Doug Wilson
>
>
>
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