"Democrat party"
David Bowie
db.list at PMPKN.NET
Mon Jun 2 12:01:16 UTC 2008
Automatic digest processor wrote:
> There are 18 messages totalling 751 lines in this issue.
>
> Topics of the day:
>
> 1. "Democrat party" (9)
> 2. Antedating: bumpology, 1826 (and 1831)
> 3. It begs the question: is it just me?
> 4. ambiguous "to" +V (3)
> 5. the spoken sounds of ing/ink and ang/ank (2)
> 6. Antedating of "Yada Yada"
> 7. Fwd: ambiguous "to" +V
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
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> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 07:59:09 -0400
> From: David Bowie <db.list at PMPKN.NET>
> Subject: Re: "Democrat party"
>
> From: RonButters at AOL.COM
>
> <snip>
>
>> I agree with Larry, not only is it not a simple matter of "analogy," it is
>> also the case that it is simply impolite and childish to use terms of reference
>> that the vast majority of the members of the referred-to group do not wish to
>> have used. "Democrat Party" is akin to name-calling--about as puerile as
>> "Repub-bull-ick Party would be."
>
> I challenge the "vast majority" claim.
>
> Vast majority of national Democratic Party figures, maybe. But the vast
> majority of Democrats? I suspect "don't know/don't care" would be the
> plurality (at least) response, were a poll taken.
>
> You brought up religious group names--the Mormon/LDS thing may be nicely
> parallel. In my experience, no US Mormons/LDS[1] find others' use of LDS
> impolite, but a fair number find others' use of Mormon impolite while
> many other US Mormons/LDS see no impoliteness in it at all. (I suspect
> this is regionally differentiated, but i can't be certain.) My best
> guess is that Democrat as a party label is, for Democrats, like Mormon
> is for Mormons/LDS.
>
> This isn't to say that Fox News types are using Democrat as a party
> label innocently--i think they're happily needling the sort of people
> that the use of the term needles--i'm just saying that i don't think it
> actually makes a difference to most hearers.
>
> [1] LDS is both singulars and plural, and a reference to both the church
> and its members. Now *there*'s multitasking for you!
>
> --
> David Bowie University of Central Florida
> Jeanne's Two Laws of Chocolate: If there is no chocolate in the
> house, there is too little; some must be purchased. If there is
> chocolate in the house, there is too much; it must be consumed.
>
> ------------------------------
>
From: Laurence Horn <laurence.horn at YALE.EDU>
<snip>
>> You brought up religious group names--the Mormon/LDS thing may be nicely
>> parallel. In my experience, no US Mormons/LDS[1] find others' use of LDS
>> impolite, but a fair number find others' use of Mormon impolite while
>> many other US Mormons/LDS see no impoliteness in it at all. (I suspect
>> this is regionally differentiated, but i can't be certain.) My best
>> guess is that Democrat as a party label is, for Democrats, like Mormon
>> is for Mormons/LDS.
<snip>
> I resist this analogy too, as I expect Ron would. The primary,
> possibly the only, use of "Democrat party" is as an epithet (as even
> the wikipedia entry notes); the intention is to "needle", as you say,
> or more. But the primary, though not necessarily the only, use of
> "Mormon" is neutral, with no insult intended. For many gentiles (in
> the relevant sense), the first encounter with "Mormon" is or was the
> "Mormon Tabernacle" and especially the celebrated choir thereof,
> which leads many (e.g. me) to infer that "Mormon" is more of a
> self-designation than an outsider epithet. Rightly or wrongly, I've
> always thought of the difference between "Mormon" and "Latter-Day
> Saints" to be parallel to that of "Sixth Avenue" and "Avenue of the
> Americas", the colloquial vs. the official designation--another
> dubious analogy, perhaps, but there you have it. Since Democrats
> never refer to their party as the Democrat party, and since the label
> is used only by anti-Democrats, it's hard for me to buy the parallel
> with "Mormon".
Sorry about being somewhat unclear--i wasn't talking about the *intent*
of the use of Democrat or Mormon, i was talking about the *perception*
(reception?) of it among the referenced group. It's not an exact
parallel, of course (as i apparently didn't stress enough), but i was
just trying to point out a similarity, in that some Democrats find
"Democrat Party" objectionable, while others (in my experience) don't.
In any event, though, i still sincerely doubt that the vast majority of
Democrats actually care either way whether the party is called the
Democrat or the Democratic Party.
And like i said initially, i'm not saying anything about the intent of
Fox News broadcasters in all this, except to agree that it's likely
purposeful and a gratuitous attempt to needle. I just don't think it has
a big an effect on listeners as others seem to think.
--
David Bowie University of Central Florida
Jeanne's Two Laws of Chocolate: If there is no chocolate in the
house, there is too little; some must be purchased. If there is
chocolate in the house, there is too much; it must be consumed.
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