char siu, raper

[Bradley A. Esparza]

"Raper" is used in word lists for different word games on Facebook like Word
Twist and Text Twirl, for instance.

On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 9:14 AM, Benjamin Barrett <gogaku at ix.netcom.com>
wrote:

> On Jun 4, 2008, at 8:51 AM, Mark Mandel wrote:
>
>  ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster:       Mark Mandel <thnidu at GMAIL.COM>
>> Subject:      Re: char siu, raper
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>  On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 3:49 PM, Benjamin Barrett <gogaku at ix.netcom.com
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Raper" is more unusual, a word used by George R.R. Martin in
>>>>>>> _A Game of
>>>>>>> Thrones_ (Bantam Sept 1997) on multiple occasions. ...
>>>>>>> So far in my reading of this book, this is the closest Martin
>>>>>>> comes to
>>>>>>> defining what a raper is; I assume it's the same as a rapist.
>>>>>>> This is a
>>>>>>> fantasy book, but most of the events are realistic. Given the
>>>>>>> multiple
>>>>>>> appearances of the word, it seems to simply be an idiosyncratic
>>>>>>> part of
>>>>>>> Martin's vocabulary.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>  On Jun 2, 2008, at 1:43 PM, Mark Mandel wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Speculative fiction is full of lexons and usages that are found
>>>>>> only
>>>>>> in a particular work, often for new meanings (start with
>>>>>> "hobbit" and
>>>>>> work out from there) but sometimes also equivalents to existing
>>>>>> words,
>>>>>> used as part of the setting or color.
>>>>>> * including fantasy, science fiction ("sf" in the traditional
>>>>>> sense),
>>>>>> and more
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>  On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 12:50 PM, Benjamin Barrett (off list)
>>>>
>>>>> Another word I ought to have mentioned is "ser" for "sir," which
>>>>> seems
>>>>> likely to have been borrowed from other works. BB
>>>>>
>>>>
>>  On Jun 3, 2008, at 4:11 PM, Mark Mandel wrote  (off list)
>>>
>>>> Or coined independently. But nah, he's probably seen some of those
>>>> others. I know I recognize "ser"; I can't place it, but it'll come
>>>> to me.
>>>>
>>>
>> On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 1:47 AM, Benjamin Barrett   (off list)
>>
>>> That's exactly the feeling I had. I sure don't care for it, but it
>>> should
>>> probably be recognized in the lexicon. BB
>>>
>>
>>
>> If you're talking about "raper", possibly, since it's formed from a
>> normal English word with a productive prefix; but I feel somewhat
>> opposed.
>>
>> If you mean "ser", I disagree. Words that are used only in a single
>> "universe" of fiction do not belong in a general dictionary, any more
>> than their protagonists belong in a biographical dictionary. Only if
>> they catch on in wider use do they become the business of the general
>> lexicon: e.g.,
>> * Tolkien's "dwarves", "orc" -- widely used now in fantasy and in
>> fantasy-based gaming
>> * Rowling's "muggle" -- used in contexts beyond discussion of the HP
>> series
>>
>> I think this part of the conversation belongs on the general list and
>> am cc-ing it there.
>>
>
> I posted "raper" as it seemed an odd duplication of "rapist" that
> might potentially show up elsewhere either in imitation or as a nonce
> usage. At this point, I don't think it should be included.
>
> If "ser" is used commonly in books, surely it should be considered for
> inclusion in a general lexicon. Excluding words in a single genre of
> fiction is unreasonable and would cause many other words to be
> eliminated. Perhaps this is possible if a word is limited to a genre
> (or subgenre) with limited circulation, but I don't think that is the
> case here. BB
>
>
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> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>



--
Bradley A. Esparza

"You can lead a whore to culture, but you can't make her think." Dorothy
Parker, when asked to use the word 'horticulture' in a sentence.

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