yonder - English or Irish?

[Wilson Gray]

Well, "Siul a riun" certainly sounds a lot like Shule Aroon.

-Wilson

On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 9:47 AM, Barbara Need <bhneed at gmail.com> wrote:
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> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Barbara Need <bhneed at GMAIL.COM>
> Subject:      Re: yonder - English or Irish?
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I first knew a version of this song as "Johnny has gone for a
> soldier" sung by Burl Ives (without _yonder_ in the song). The notes
> accompanying the text says it was sung during the American
> Revolution. A web search also identifies it as a Revolutionary War
> song, "probably an American adaptation of the Irish tune Shule Aroon
> from the 17th Century".
>
> Barbara
>
> On 20 Jun 2008, at 8:05, Joel S. Berson wrote:
>
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>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster:       "Joel S. Berson" <Berson at ATT.NET>
>> Subject:      Re: yonder - English or Irish?
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ---------
>>
>> James Harbeck's inclusion of spinning wheels in his placement of the
>> days is incorrect.  Spinning wheels were certainly used later than
>> the 17th century.  And they were an important element in British land
>> war of the other continent, namely the Revolutionary war: the
>> colonials, in their efforts to boycott imports from Britain,
>> endeavored to spin more.
>>
>> Which leads me to wonder (rhymes with yonder):  Josh Macfelder seems
>> to have assumed the song relates to a war on the continent.  Why not
>> overseas?  Or why not a civil war in England?
>>
>> However, I have the same view as James about the sword:  an ordinary
>> soldier in the 18th century would likely not be armed with one
>> (unless he were Persian, Indian, perhaps Turkish, etc.).
>>
>> Joel
>>
>> At 6/20/2008 01:15 AM, Josh Macfelder wrote:
>>> On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 17:32:18 -0700 "JAMES A. LANDAU Netscape. Just
>>> the Net
>>> You Need." <JJJRLandau at NETSCAPE.COM> wrote:
>>>
>>> "The Peter, Paul, and Mary version of the song (entitled "Gone the
>>> Rainbow")
>>> included these words:
>>>
>>> I sold my flax, I sold my wheel
>>> To buy my love a sword of steel
>>> So it in battle he might wield
>>> Johnny's gone for a soldier
>>>
>>> These words, if accurate (PP&M frequently made changes to the
>>> songs they
>>> sung and made no claim to historical accuracy), would place the
>>> song in the
>>> days of spinning wheels and soldiers who used swords. That would
>>> be earlier
>>> than the Wars of the French Revolution, which were mostly fought with
>>> gunpowder. Swords went out of fashion on land battlefields in the
>>> late 17th
>>> Century with the invention of the bayonet (which in its turn was made
>>> obsolete by the pop-top on beer cans.)"
>>>
>>> MY COMMENT:
>>>
>>> Thanks for pointing that out, I really overlooked the reference to
>>> the
>>> sword. As a matter of fact, the "Siul a Riun" song reads almost
>>> the same:
>>>
>>> "I'll sell my rock, I'll sell my reel,
>>> I'll sell my only spinning wheel
>>> To buy my love a sword of steel"
>>>
>>> So you might be right in placing the song in the 17th c. As for
>>> the spinning
>>> wheels, though, I really don't know. Right now I'm in Ukraine,
>>> where in the
>>> countryside quite a few babushkas (elderly ladies) still use
>>> those, so I
>>> guess they're not out of use yet. Of couse, this doesn't have to
>>> be true for
>>> Ireland :P
>>>
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--
All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
-----
 -Sam'l Clemens

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