schwa is not one sound but many

Mon May 26 01:22:25 UTC 2008

I know schwa takes different sounds from listeningto the spoken words in talking dictionaries, which is where I take truespel pronunciations from.  Take the world "international" from the IPA home site top heading.  There are three schwas. Listen to the pronunciation at m-w.com.  I hear ~internnashinool, where the shwas are ~er (as in "her") ~in (as in "in") and ~ool (as in "wool") (~nn begins a stressed syllable). The word is spoken correctly in m-w.com I believe.

Basically that means that IPA is not a fully phonetic notation because it uses schwa.  It also dropped the "r" on "inter" which must be UK accent.

Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
See truespel.com - and the 4 truespel books plus "Occasional Poems" at authorhouse.com.

> Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 22:34:07 -0400
> From: laurence.horn at YALE.EDU
> Subject: Re: schwa is not one sound but many
> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender: American Dialect Society
> Poster: Laurence Horn
> Subject: Re: schwa is not one sound but many
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> At 12:36 AM +0000 5/25/08, Tom Zurinskas wrote:
>>Schwa isn't actually a sound in itself. It stands for many sounds
>>in USA English. In truespel I wanted to avoid special symbols like
>>schwa. The talking dictionaries speak out the words so they say the
>>sounds of schwa and I've transcribed them. Any dictionary that uses
>>schwa is not really phonetic, because schwa stands for many sounds.
>
> and you know this because it's written with different letters?
>
> LH
>
>>
>>Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
>>See truespel.com - and the 4 truespel books plus "Occasional Poems"
>>at authorhouse.com.
>>
>>> Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 13:58:36 -0500
>>> From: slafaive at GMAIL.COM
>>> Subject: Re: ADS-L Digest - 21 May 2008 to 22 May 2008 (#2008-144)
>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>>
>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>-----------------------
>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>> Poster: Scot LaFaive
>>> Subject: Re: ADS-L Digest - 21 May 2008 to 22 May 2008 (#2008-144)
>>>
>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>>Most popular vowel in US English is ~u (short u or "uh") and least is ~oi.
>>>
>>> Technically, isn't schwa the most popular (US) English vowel? Or is ~u
>>> your version of schwa?
>>>
>>> Scot
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 6:35 PM, Tom Zurinskas wrote:
>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>-----------------------
>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>> Poster: Tom Zurinskas
>>>> Subject: Re: ADS-L Digest - 21 May 2008 to 22 May 2008 (#2008-144)
>>>>
>>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> In truespel there are 3 "r" affected vowels ~or (as in "or"
>>>>"door" "four"), ~er (as in "her") and ~air (as in "air").
>>>> The "o" in ~or is between long o "oh" (~oe) and "awe" (~au). Some
>>>>accents tend either way. For "more money" you might hear ~moe
>>>>munee~ or ~mau munee~.
>>>>
>>>> There are 17 vowels in US English. The 14 other vowels are the 5
>>>>short vowels, ~a ~e ~i ~oo ~u (I call ~oo a short o vowel - its
>>>>stands for the sound in "foot" wood") The 5 long vowels that have
>>>>silent e snugged up to them ~ae ~ee ~ie ~oe ~ue. The two
>>>>diphthongs ~ou (as in "out") and ~oi (as in "point") and 2 others
>>>>"awe" ~au and "ah" ~aa (as in Saab).
>>>>
>>>> Most popular vowel in US English is ~u (short u or "uh") and least is ~oi.
>>>>
>>>> Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
>>>> See truespel.com - and the 4 truespel books plus "Occasional
>>>>Poems" at authorhouse.com.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 15:51:32 -0400
>>>>> From: sagehen at WESTELCOM.COM
>>>>> Subject: Re: ADS-L Digest - 21 May 2008 to 22 May 2008 (#2008-144)
>>>>> To: ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>>>-----------------------
>>>>> Sender: American Dialect Society
>>>>> Poster: sagehen
>>>>> Subject: Re: ADS-L Digest - 21 May 2008 to 22 May 2008 (#2008-144)
>>>>>
>>>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> on 5/23/08 12:21 PM, Tom Zurinskas at truespel at HOTMAIL.COM wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Actually, there's not a single instance in my truespel database where
>>>>>> tradstreeng "oo" is pronounced as long o, or "oh" ~oe.
>>>>> ~~~~~~
>>>>> What about "door"?
>>>>> ~~~~~~~~
>>>>>> Interestingly, I find in my analysis of English (USA), that
>>>>>>tradstreeng "oo"
>>>>>> is more often pronounce as in "look" (~look) and "wood" (~wood)
>>>>>>than any other
>>>>>> sound, including long u as in "food" ~fued, and "soon", ~suen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>> Without knowing what is meant by "tradstreeng" I nevertheless have to
>>>>> notice: /boo, coo, foo, goo, hoo, loo, moo, poo, roo, too, woo/, and many
>>>>> another with following consonants. In fact, my unresearched
>>>>>assumption would
>>>>> be that, faced with an unfamiliar word with "oo" in it the "food" vowel
>>>>> would be one's first choice.
>>>>> AM
>>>>>
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