back and forth

[Wilson Gray]

You got me there, Alison. I know "backing and filling" only as a
literary phrase whose meaning I've never been moved to look up,
because, in my experience, IAC, it's too rare to be worth the effort.

-Wilson

All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
-----
-Mark Twain



On Sat, Nov 29, 2008 at 6:32 PM, Alison Murie <sagehen7470 at att.net> wrote:
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> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Alison Murie <sagehen7470 at ATT.NET>
> Subject:      Re: back and forth
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> On Nov 29, 2008, at 12:22 PM, Arnold Zwicky wrote:
>
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>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster:       Arnold Zwicky <zwicky at STANFORD.EDU>
>> Subject:      back and forth
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Victor Steinbok notes the nominal "backing and forthing", in the
>> National Review:
>>
>> The Muslim side had sought to limit the scope of the talks to purely
>> "theological" issues, specifically excluding any concrete and specific
>> concerns like the plight of shrinking Christian minorities in Muslim-
>> majority states. After much backing and forthing, an agreement was
>> reached to split the difference, with the first day devoted to
>> "theological and spiritual fundamentals," the second to "the dignity
>> of the human person and mutual respect."
>>   http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YzVmMWQ3ZjA2NzQ3Nzg0YmY2NjQ1OWMxMjM3OGIyM2U=
>>
>> this struck me as entirely ordinary, but it seems not to be in the
>> OED.  plenty of examples to be found: 432 reduced [with "very similar"
>> entries omitted] google web hits for {"backing and forthing"}.  most
>> of these are for nominals, e.g.
>>
>>   ... it was the slippery slope as his inane, "I voted for the war
>> before I voted against it" reminded every concerned voter of his
>> backing and forthing ...
>> daveinboca.blogspot.com/2006_10_01_archive.html
>>
>> but a few are for a present-participial verb:
>>
>>   He had driven on the raised sidewalk to bypass the line of cars and
>> spent a good ten minutes backing and forthing to fit into the parking
>> space, ...
>> blue2go.blogspot.com/
>>
>> some are spelled as three separate words, some hyphenated:
>>
>>   Since there is so much backing-and-forthing on the timing of new
>> construction purchases, I would like to remind buyers of two factors
>> that ...
>> wirednewyork.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-13523.html
>>
>> and there are straightforward examples of "back and forth" as a verb.
>> i got 43 reduced hits for "backed and forthed", e.g.:
>>
>>   The girls have backed and forthed a lot since then and are good
>> friends. Making that kind of connection is precisely why playdates are
>> so important, ...
>> www.todaysparent.com/lifeasparent/article.jsp?content=20051006_140514_736&page=1
>>
>> including at least one with a dummy-"it" object:
>>
>>   For a few months there I backed and forthed it between canaries,
>> finches and parakeets.
>> northernleaf.wordpress.com/2008/06/10/did-you-forget-that-yellow-bird-
>> oh-how-could-you-forget-your-yellow-bird/
>>
>> meanwhile, the variants with marking on only the final element,
>> "forth", are even more frequent: 748 reduced hits for {"back and
>> forthing"}:
>>
>>   All this back and forthing between subject matter (fashion, beauty,
>> men, celebrity...) gives me a bit of a confusion headache ...
>> girlwithasatchel.blogspot.com/2007/07/feel-glamour.html
>>
>> and 84 for {"back and forthed"}:
>>
>>   janni kicked off a discussion of rules and magic, where she back-
>> and-forthed on the concept that "all magic must have rules, and the
>> writer should know them ...
>> jennifer-dunne.livejournal.com/tag/rants
>>
>> all of these are based on the adverbial "back and forth", which has
>> been verbed, and can then be inflected on its final element or on both
>> conjuncts (cf. "up and went" / "upped and went" and similar
>> examples).  the -ing forms are then available for use as nominals, as
>> for verbs in general.
>>
>> it's possible that the verb "back and fill" 'to go backward and
>> forward' (and the nominal "backing and filling") played a role in this
>> development.  both this verb and this nominal *are* in the OED. this
>> verb also allows inflection on the final element only:
>>
>>   We back and filled up and down most of the day in anticipation of
>> President Elect Obama's speech. The market chopped around during and
>> after the speech ...
>> evolutiontraders.com/category/recap/
>>
>>   With that said, there is a good chance that the market will see
>> some back and filling on Monday and Tuesday.
>> www.trade2win.com/boards/us-indices/39570-stock-index-report-carley-
>> garner.html
>>
>> (very few occurrences of final-inflection-only for clear verbals, more
>> for the nominal "back and filling")
>>
>> arnold
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~
> I wonder what the general understanding of "backing & filling" is.  I
> think of it as making excuses, patching up defenses, generally
> covering deficiencies.  The examples above sound more like waiting
> around or doing busywork.
> AM
>
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