"Biting the big one"

Wilson Gray hwgray at GMAIL.COM
Mon Oct 6 19:23:52 UTC 2008 

The use of "Neat guy!" as a medium-mild insult - it was nothing when
applied to a BMOC, but it could be hurtful when applied to some poor
loser, because of the sarcasm, in such a case - dates to ca.1950-54
for me. "Neat" was always a good thing, *except* when used in the
exclamation, "Neat guy!", something like "neat GUY!" insofar as it's
possible to write intonation. I don't recall that this was used
otherwise.

Paul's (pretty) neat!

Paul's a (really) neat guy!

Speaking of neat guys, how about (that (guy)) Paul Johnston?

All good.

paul JOHNston?! neat GUY!

Paul, let me see your homework, okay?

What?! No!

neat GUY!

Bad.

Of course, refusing to help someone cheat wouldn't really make you a
"bad" neat guy. The other guy would call you that just because he was
pissed off. (Back in the relevant day, we said "pissed off," never
simply "pissed," sometimes pswaydo-euphemized as "urinated off," in
the presence of girls. We were quite courtly, in those days.

-Wilson

On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 2:30 PM, Paul Johnston <paul.johnston at wmich.edu> wrote:
> ---------------------- Information from the mail header -----------------------
> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Poster:       Paul Johnston <paul.johnston at WMICH.EDU>
> Subject:      Re: "Biting the big one"
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> You mention "neat guy" with the meaning of "asshole".  In the Chicago
> area, circa 1960, among us kids, there was a difference between a
> "neat guy", with phrasal stress, which meant someone who was cool,
> and a "neatguy", stressed as a compound, which meant something close
> to an "asshole", or at least, a "dork".  I had forgotten all about
> that, but it belongs to the same era (and our age group) as calling
> people "ratfinks" and saying they were "scurvy" and imitating Soupy
> Sales characters and Steve Allen's Schmockingbird.  Definitely pre-
> (but just pre-)pubescent.
>
> Paul Johnston
>
> "
> On Oct 6, 2008, at 2:08 PM, Wilson Gray wrote:
>
>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>> -----------------------
>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>> Poster:       Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
>> Subject:      Re: "Biting the big one"
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ---------
>>
>> I know it only from my days in the military, around those years, and
>> only in the form, "That bites the big one." Ever hear
>>
>> That takes the meat "That sucks/blows"
>>
>> You take the meat "You suck/blow"
>>
>> He takes the meat "He sucks/blows."
>>
>> That takes gas "That sucks/blows"
>>
>> [Someone] is taking gas "[Someone] is getting the shaft/shafted"
>>
>> [Someone] took gas "[Someone] got the shaft/shafted"
>>
>> Neat guy! "You asshole!"
>>
>> but
>>
>> (That's) neat! "(That's) cool!"
>>
>> In my experience, these don't exist in the black speech, not even in
>> that of black ex-GI's, of my era. That's no doubt why I'm not familiar
>> with all the combinations, permutations, and possibilities. If I
>> hadn't gone to a high school and also served in a military unit that
>> were 99.44% white, I would never have heard any of these forms, except
>> for "bite the big one" in the sense of "die."
>>
>> It's interesting that "bite the big one," which clearly referenced
>> homosexual rape by the Army's big green wienie, in the military, now
>> has no kind of sexual overtone whatsoever.
>>
>> I was never able to get a handle on "take gas." That I wasn't alone in
>> this was shown by its occasional hypercorrection to "take ass,"
>> despite the fact that the latter is no more transparent, in a military
>> context, than the former.
>>
>> -Wilson
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 1:04 PM, Paul Johnston
>> <paul.johnston at wmich.edu> wrote:
>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>> -----------------------
>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>> Poster:       Paul Johnston <paul.johnston at WMICH.EDU>
>>> Subject:      Re: "Biting the big one"
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ----------
>>>
>>> Wilson, in 1960's college and high school slang, "bites the big
>>> one" (and "bites") was still used in the sense you described as used
>>> in the military (but we COULD use it in the past tense: "That test
>>> bit the big one.").  We elaborated on it too:  "Working at McDonald's
>>> bites dead worms/dead frogs."   I started hearing the present sense
>>> in the late '80s.
>>>
>>> Paul Johnston
>>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 6, 2008, at 11:06 AM, Wilson Gray wrote:
>>>
>>>> ---------------------- Information from the mail header
>>>> -----------------------
>>>> Sender:       American Dialect Society <ADS-L at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>>>> Poster:       Wilson Gray <hwgray at GMAIL.COM>
>>>> Subject:      "Biting the big one"
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> --
>>>> ---------
>>>>
>>>> Heard on a re-run of The Simpsons:
>>>>
>>>> "... where [the character] Martin [Prince] _bit the big one_."
>>>>
>>>> According to the story line, Martin is dead. Hence, "... where
>>>> Martin
>>>> _bit the big one_" clearly means ".. where Martin _died_."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Some may recall that, a while back, I posted about
>>>> misunderstanding an
>>>> email from a niece in which she stated that "... our small computer
>>>> _bit the big one_."
>>>>
>>>> In what sense did the small computer bite the big computer?
>>>> Damned if
>>>> I could figure it out. Then, I recalled an old bit of Army slang
>>>> that
>>>> I probably hadn't heard in around half a century: "That bites the
>>>> big
>>>> one!" But there were some problems: 1) the phrase was never used in
>>>> the past tense; 2) "That" was always some abstraction, not anything
>>>> that, even in a cartoon, could be portrayed as biting anything; 3)
>>>> "bites" was understood to mean the consequence of having "the big
>>>> one"
>>>> shoved into one's mouth, i.e. "forced to suck" and not literally to
>>>> "bite"; 4) "the big one" was understood to be The Green Wienie, the
>>>> metaphorical penis of the U.S. Army.
>>>>
>>>> The phrase's meaning was understood to be something like, "An
>>>> undesirable situation has arisen over which one has no control."
>>>>
>>>> But, of course, that still didn't clarify the niece's meaning for
>>>> me.
>>>>
>>>> OTOH, if I had kept up with all the episodes of The Simpsons, I
>>>> might
>>>> have understood that, on civvy street, "bite the big one" means
>>>> "die"
>>>> and is not the same as the old military "That," e.g. be unexpectedly
>>>> assigned to guard duty - a Navy-style detail: four hours on, four
>>>> hours off, over a period of 24 hours - during the middle 24 hours of
>>>> what had been a three-day pass, "bites the big one!"
>>>>
>>>> As a WAG, perhaps the phrase wasn't used in the past because,
>>>> once one
>>>> had taken the meat, taken gas, taken ass, complaining about later it
>>>> was pointless. There was always more than enough in the present to
>>>> complain about. "Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof."
>>>>
>>>> A [reading duty roster]: WTF?! "I've got guard duty! There goes my
>>>> three-day pass!'
>>>>
>>>> B.: "Yeah. That bites the big one!"
>>>>
>>>> Would the next move be to pull a Farley?
>>>>
>>>> A. "Hey, you remember that time when I had a three-day pass, but
>>>> then
>>>> I got guard duty?"
>>>>
>>>> B. "Yeah. That bit the big one." "No. But it must have bitten the
>>>> big one."
>>>>
>>>> Sounds unlikely.
>>>>
>>>> B would be more likely to say: "Yeah. What about it?"
>>>>
>>>> Yet, it seems to me that "bites" in phrases like, "Reality
>>>> bites!" is
>>>> ultimately derived from the military phrase. I don't feel much
>>>> difference between "Reality bites" and "Reality," e.g. guard duty,
>>>> "bites the big one," Well, "Reality bites!" probably is meant to
>>>> describe the expected, whereas "That bites the big one!" was a
>>>> reaction to the unexpected. "The Army sucks" is probably closer to
>>>> "Reality bites" in meaning.
>>>>
>>>> -Wilson
>>>> --
>>>> All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange
>>>> complaint to
>>>> come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>>>> -----
>>>> -Mark Twain
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
>> come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
>> -----
>> -Mark Twain
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org
>



--
All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"---a strange complaint to
come from the mouths of people who have had to live.
-----
-Mark Twain

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The American Dialect Society - http://www.americandialect.org

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